Reich: Yamnaya brought R1b to Europe

[blogen]

Any writings by Homer and Pindar describing the gods, heroes, or notable people (most of them were said to be blond). For example, Homer described Menelaus, the king of the Spartans, as blond in "Iliad".

This was a clear question. What is the sources?

[Peterski]

Data for three steppe IE cultures - Andronovo + Tachtyk + Tagar:

1. Hair pigmentation (when known):

blond or light brown - 6 (60%)
brown - 3
dark brown - 1

2. Y-DNA haplogroups (when known):

R1a1a - 9 (90%)
C (not C3) - 1 -------------------> individual with C had dark brown hair

3. mtDNA haplogroups (for everyone):

T3 - 3
H or U - 3
T1 - 2
C - 2
U4 - 2
U5a1 - 1
U2e - 1
H5 - 1
H6 - 1
T2a1b1 - 1
K2b - 1
I4 - 1
G2a - 1
Z1 - 1
HV - 1
F1b - 1
N9a - 1

4. mtDNA of individuals with blond or light brown hair:

T1 - 2
C - 2
N9a - 1
U5a1 - 1

[blogen]

Data for three steppe IE cultures - Andronovo + Tachtyk + Tagar:

1. Hair pigmentation (when known):

blond or light brown - 6 (60%)
brown - 3
dark brown - 1

What would be interesting, since:

The Andronovo samples from Krasnoyarsk region (sex/YDNA/mtDNA/skin/hair/eye) 1800–1400 BC:

wogs: 50%
male/C/U4/medium/brown/brown
male/R1a1a/U2e/-/brown/-
female/U4/medium/brown/brown
female/Z1/-/-/brown

borderline case (maybe!): 25%
female/T2a1b1/-/-/light
unknown/K2b/-/-/light

light color complexion: 25%
male/-/T1/fair or medium/light/light
male/R1a1a/U5a1/fair or medium/light/light

[Peterski]

male/C/U4/medium/brown/brown

Wrong, C male was dark brown (not brown). I provided all the data above.

Here is the source:

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnaintro.shtml

===================

http://s28.postimg.org/yk0dq7659/Tachtyk.png

http://s2.postimg.org/kz2vhilpl/Andronovo.png

http://s23.postimg.org/fc9z8n1kr/Tagar.png





This above is all pigmentation from genes.

But pigmentation preserved in mummies also shows the same pattern.

Some mummies from R1a Siberian Scythians (Pazyryk culture):

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...scussion/page5

[blogen]

So these are the other datas:

Tagar, 800BC-100AD (sex/YDNA/mtDNA/skin/hair/eye):

wogs: 50%
unknown/-/T3/fair or medium/brown/blue or green
female/-/T3/-/-/brown
male/R1a1a/C/fair or medium/blond or light brown/brown
male/R1a1a/H5/-/-/brown

unknown or borderline case (maybe!): 50%
unknown/-/T3/-/-/blue or green
male/R1a1a/I4/-/-/blue or green
male/R1a1a/G2a/-/-/blue or green
male/R1a1a/-/-/-/blue or green

light color complexion: 0%


Tachtyk, 100-400AD (sex/YDNA/mtDNA/skin/hair/eye):

wogs: 20%
female/-/-/-/-/brown

unknown or borderline case (maybe!): 20%
male/R1a1a/-/-/blue or green

light color complexion: 60%
female/-/C/fair or medium/blond or light brown/blue or green
female/-/N9a/fair or medium/blond or light brown/blue or green
female/-/T1/fair or medium/blond or light brown/blue or green


TOTAL STEPPE (bronze and iron age):

wogs: 43%
unknown: 33%
light color complexion: 24%

[Bloodnigger]

Any writings by Homer and Pindar describing the gods, heroes, or notable people (most of them were said to be blond). For example, Homer described Menelaus, the king of the Spartans, as blond in "Iliad".

Any writings by Homer and Pindar describing the gods, heroes, or notable people (most of them were said to be blond). For example, Homer described Menelaus, the king of the Spartans, as blond in "Iliad".

Your sources are wrong, partly.

Bacchylides describes 1 spartan woman as blond. He makes no generalization. Pindar and Homer wrote poetry and it wasn't take as realistic at all. Bacchylides also. Taking poetry at point blank but ignoring their more "scientific" texts is not a very smart move.

Spoiler!

And on this Sophocles, laughing at the Eretrian, said,- 'Then, my friend, I suppose you are not pleased with the line in Simonides which is generally considered among the Greeks to be a beautiful one-
The maid poured forth a gentle voice
From out her purple mouth.
And you do not either like the poet who spoke of the golden-haired Apollo; for if a painter were to represent the hair of the god as actually golden, and not black, the picture would be all the worse. Nor do you approve of the poet who described women as rosy-fingered. For if any one were to dip his fingers in rosy-coloured paint he would make his hands like those of a purple-dyer, and not of a pretty woman.' And when they all laughed at this, the Eretrian was checked by the reproof; and Sophocles again turned to pursue the conversation with the boy; for he asked him, as he was brushing away the straws from the cup with his little finger, whether he saw any straws: and when he said that he did, he said, 'Blow them away, then, that you may not dirty your fingers.' And when he brought his face near the cup he held the cup nearer to his own mouth, so as to bring his own head nearer to the head of the boy. And when he was very near he took him by the hand and kissed him. And when all clapped their hands, laughing and shouting out, to see how well he had taken the boy in, he said, 'I, my friends, am practising the art of generalship, since Pericles has said that I know how to compose poetry, but not how to be a general; now has not this stratagem of mine succeeded perfectly?' And he both said and did many things of this kind in a witty manner, drinking and giving himself up to mirth: but as to political affairs he was not able nor energetic in them, but behaved as any other virtuous Athenian might have done."

The above can be found here
http://www.attalus.org/old/athenaeus13d.html#600
Section 81, go to page 600. The two poets he describes, btw, are Pindar and Homer respectively. (pindar for Apollo, Homer for the rest)

On the other hand we have several greek physiognomists or proto-anthropologists such as pseudo-Aristotle. Or historians like Herodotus which described the attributes of different peoples.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hh/hh4100.htm
The Geloni are descended by greek colonists and he states that they are completely different to the pale and red/blond Budini who are classified as thracians ore scythians.

Pseudo-Aristotle is the most famous in that regard and was used in a lot of such debates. The fact that he puts "white-haired/blond" scythians as far away from greeks as greeks from the ethiopians says a lot. There is also Gallen who says that in teenage and adulthood the people of greece have hair as "dark as the ethiopians" but he comes later, during the early roman era.

Nevertheless, from what I know, the dorians were classified as dinaric-alpine by anthropologists and they compared very well to pre-slavic central balkanic people so they would be even less blond than those today. I remember a classicist remarking that Herodotus, who loved descriptions and used colors of hair, tunics and other things, fails to make any such remark on the pigmentation of Spartans who prepared to die at the Hot Gates despite exhaustive descriptions on how they oiled their hair, wore crowns of leaves on their scalps and much more. I remember the same in Athenian plays during the Pelloponessian war where the spartans, their mortal foes, are not described thus and in war it pays to make the enemy look as alien to you as possible. (and athenians were predominately dark haired, as Aristophanes says good athenian girls have black hair or the wise woman does not bleach her hair)

Yamnaya culture is the one closest to europe and from what we know so far the original people who would become the myceneans came from the Ukraine. And, as it has been proven that 80% of the samples have dark hair and eyes, only a minority of them would have been blond. And the dorians even less so. A much more learned and serious person who also shares your views makes much, much more modest claims.

http://www.amazon.com/Indo-European-.../dp/0941694755 (highly recommended) Kemp and Earlson are good trolling material but very far from the truth.

[Bloodnigger]

So these are the other datas:

Tagar, 800BC-100AD (sex/YDNA/mtDNA/skin/hair/eye):

wogs: 50%
unknown/-/T3/fair or medium/brown/blue or green
female/-/T3/-/-/brown
male/R1a1a/C/fair or medium/blond or light brown/brown
male/R1a1a/H5/-/-/brown

unknown or borderline case (maybe!): 50%
unknown/-/T3/-/-/blue or green
male/R1a1a/I4/-/-/blue or green
male/R1a1a/G2a/-/-/blue or green
male/R1a1a/-/-/-/blue or green

light color complexion: 0%


Tachtyk, 100-400AD (sex/YDNA/mtDNA/skin/hair/eye):

wogs: 20%
female/-/-/-/-/brown

unknown or borderline case (maybe!): 20%
male/R1a1a/-/-/blue or green

light color complexion: 60%
female/-/C/fair or medium/blond or light brown/blue or green
female/-/N9a/fair or medium/blond or light brown/blue or green
female/-/T1/fair or medium/blond or light brown/blue or green


TOTAL STEPPE (bronze and iron age):

wogs: 43%
unknown: 33%
light color complexion: 24%

Didn't Andranovo split off from Yamnaya? (the main group) The Corded Ware era warrior was also similar to the yamnaya sample.

[blogen]

Didn't Andranovo split off from Yamnaya? (the main group)

Yes, and not. Yes, there was a yamnaya expansion into Western Siberia, but there is a problem with this: R1b yamnaya samples from the Volga valley and R1a Andronovo samples from Western Siberia. Maybe the majority of the Andronovans were assimilated pre-Indoeuropeans (R1a) from Western Siberia.

The Corded Ware era warrior was also similar to the yamnaya sample.

How?

[Bloodnigger]

Yes, and not. Yes, there was a yamnaya expansion into Western Siberia, but there is a problem with this: R1b yamnaya samples from the Volga valley and R1a Andronovo samples from Western Siberia. Maybe the majority of the Andronovans were assimilated pre-Indoeuropeans (R1a) from Western Siberia.



How?

Took this from the comments
U5b1, H1b, H2a, H1b, H1a, H2a, H6 (the mtdna taken from the CW skeletons) Same ones from Yamna.

Wasn't there R1a also found in Yamnaya?

[blogen]

Took this from the comments
U5b1, H1b, H2a, H1b, H1a, H2a, H6 (the mtdna taken from the CW skeletons) Same ones from Yamna.
Wasn't there R1a also found in Yamnaya?

Where?