Slavic peoples ethnogenesis

[igo112]

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[TheForeigner]

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[Peterski]

Mikula,

If we are talking about toponyms (place-names):

Here is a map of place-names of Slavic origin in Austria, testifying to the large degree of Slavic ancestry among modern Austrians:

http://wwwg.uni-klu.ac.at/spw/oenf/n...n/image004.jpg



Among settlements with names of Slavic origin in Austria is the city of Graz (originally Gradec in Old Slovene language). Inhabitants of the city of Graz have a very high % of R1a1 haplogroup - 43% (accordng to Kalevi Wiik 2008). A somehow lower % of R1a1 - 16% - is observed in part of East Tyrol with high concentration of Slavic place-names. By contrast part of East Tyrol with no Slavic place-names has 0% of R1a:

http://s10.postimg.org/3t8zbaoih/Slavic_Tyrol.png



So the pattern is as follows (compare this to the map of place-names of Slavic origin in Austria from the map posted above):



The branch of Slavs who inhabited Austria were Slovenes (Alpine Slavs). Northern Slovenes were known as Carantanians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carantania

Here is the largest historical extent of Slovenes. After the conquest of Carantania, a lot of Slavic inhabitants were Germanized:

http://www.gis.si/egw/ZSS_T04_P02/img/karta2.jpg



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Germany of course also has a lot of Slavic place-names.

In areas of Thuringia and Franconia to the west of the Saale River alone there are over 700 settlements with names of Slavic origin.

[Peterski]

Germany of course also has a lot of Slavic place-names.

In areas of Thuringia and Franconia to the west of the Saale River alone there are over 700 settlements with names of Slavic origin.

This 16th century bas-relief from a town hall in Großbrembach (near Weimar), Thuringia shows two guys - a Slav and a German - under one hat, which commemorates the 16th century merger of two towns - Slavic Windischenbrembach and German Brembach - into one, Großbrembach:



Here is an interesting article (in English):

Roman Zaroff, "Germanisation of the land between the Elbe-Saale and the Oder river. Colonisation or assimilation?":

http://luzicane.narod.ru/RZaroff.html

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The "Survey of Saxon Law" (Sachsenspiegel), written between years 1220 and 1235:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sachsenspiegel

It contains laws applying specifically to various ethnic groups in the HRE, including Slavs:



Here another scene from Sachsenspiegel - this time showing a "for-Slavs-only" court:

[TheForeigner]

Litvin, what about Hungarians?

[TheForeigner]

Slovenes must have assimilated loads of Romanized Kelts and Illyrians themselves, before some ''turning German''.

[TheForeigner]

Dr. Rajko Bratož states they assimilated less than 1% of Romanized inhabitants..

Slovenians are fairly slavic pure, theire just bastardized a lot with Croats.

What happened with the rest?

[Pahli]

Proto-Croats were, according to evidence. Closest relatives of pre-Slavic Croats would be modern Kurds, it is written. Evidence is supported by archeological findings, and many words in modern Croatian language. For example, we call our coat of arms ''šahovnica'', which linguists connect to Iranian ''shah'' (ruler). Also word ''ban''(viceroy), and naming of sides of the world were in traditional Iranic Fashion (White Croatia=West Croatia, Red Croatia=south Croatia, Black was synonim for north)

No mention of Serbs, they are different people than us but nowdays closely related (in the past too, they had White Serbia in modern day Germany, which was Western than White Croatian state)

About Bosnia, earliest Croatian principalities and Kingdoms included Bosnian teritory, but it is possble people inhabiting Bosnia had their own identity. Bosnia later formed it's own Kingdom and nation. But today weird shape of Croatia correspondes with Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman border, which was never an ethnic border.

So what you're saying is ... If I made babies with a slav, they would become something close to Croats? Lulz, but I guess thats where the names and common words come into context. Names like Zoran or Goran are pre-slavic and originally Iranic. Goran is still used by Kurds, where Zoran is very rare.

[Jana]

So what you're saying is ... If I made babies with a slav, they would become something close to Croats? Lulz, but I guess thats where the names and common words come into context. Names like Zoran or Goran are pre-slavic and originally Iranic. Goran is still used by Kurds, where Zoran is very rare.

Eh I doubt it It's very ancient link. Didn't Know about names Goran and Zoran, thanks for information!

[Jana]

correlates nicely with this map..

Where did you get that from ? Could be Slovene propaganda