Belarusian Litvinism

[Vorg]

In the 14-16 centuries Lithuanian grand dukes ruled the former lands of Rus, as vassals of the Tatar khans, paying tribute to them and get yarliks from them, from which are known about the following khans:

Yarlik of Abdullah (Mamai) to Olgerd (1362)
Yarlik of Tokhtamysh to Jagiello (1392-1393)
Yarlik of Tokhtamysh to Vytautas (1397-1398)
Yarlik of Haji Giray to Vytautas
Yarlik of Ulugh Muhammad to Svidrigailov (1431)
Yarlik of Haji Giray to Sigismund Keystutevichu
Yarlik of Haji Giray to Casimir (1461)
Yarlik of Nur-Devlet to Casimir (1466)
Yarlik of Mengli Giray to Casimir (1472)
Yarlik of Mengli Giray to Sigismund I (1507)
Yarlik of Mengli Giray to Sigismund I (1514)
Yarlik of Muhammad Giray to Sigismund I (1520)
Yarlik of Sagip Giray to Sigismund I (1535)
Yarlik of Sagip Giray to Sigismund I (1540)
Yarlik of Devlet Giray to Sigismund II (1560)

[Marusya]

Vorg, aren't some of those "Lithuanian" Grand Dukes actually Polish Kings, such as the Sigismunds?

[Vorg]

Most of your points are simply wrong.



6. Completely wrong. There was no slavery in the PLC. Crimean Tatars organized raids against Russia and the PLC, but they were citizens of the Crimean Khanate.

12

Grand Duke of Lithuania Casimir gives land with peasants to Jew



Multi-Culti in Troki

[Vorg]

15

I advise you to read the contents of the 1st Lithuanian Statute.

The penalty for the murder of a Jew is exactly the same as for the murder of noble -

[Vorg]

Tatars and Jews - slaveholders.

[Vorg]

19

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_F..._%28printer%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrog_Bible

[Vorg]

Red line - were circled areas which were controlled by Lithuania as a vassal of the Tatar khans (16 century)

[Vorg]

1502. Letter of the Polish King Alexander to the Crimean khan Mengli Giray, with congratulation of him on his victory over the khan Shig-Ahmed, and promise to pay him gifts every year.

Великiе Орды великому царю, Мендли-гирею царю, брату моему, Божьею милостью Лядскiй король и Литовскiе земли, и Прускiе, и Жмойтскiе и иныхъ земль, Александръ король много поклонъ. Божьею милостью, отца своего болшую Орду взялъ еси да и люди, и мы то слышавъ обрадовалися. И нынеча ты, братъ нашъ, на сердцы то собе держишъ, што будто недруга нашого Шихъ-Ахметя царя язъ на тебя привелъ: и мне мочно ли то дело учинити? язъ тобе старый становитъ и братъ былъ есми, и мне на тебе, брата моего, недруга привести, и съ тымъ недругомъ соединачився, тобе брату своему лихо чинити? Правда есть, што съ Иваномъ княземъ дружба и братство пребывало было, того деля и сыномъ есми учинился ему; а чаялъ есми, што и съ тобою, съ братомъ моимъ, меня въ дружбе учинитъ: и онъ меня тобе много недругомъ учинилъ; и мы, того деля, Шихъ-Ахметя царя привели Ивана князя Московского воевати.
(Акты, относящиеся к истории Западной России. Т. 1. СПб, 1846. № 196, с. 344)

[W. R.]

Tatars and Jews - slaveholders.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/i...vrlitva191.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/i...vrlitva192.jpg

Whoa! Can you read Middle Belarusian? Oh wait, you can't, because if you did, you'd read that Article 4 forbids Jews to wear jewellery and orders them to wear yellow head wear to make them easily recognisable. And Article 5 forbids Jews and Muslim to have Christian serfs.

Well, actually thank you, now I know more: I used to sincerely believe that the GDL was a more Jew-friendly country.

1502. Letter of the Polish King Alexander to the Crimean khan Mengli Giray, with congratulation of him on his victory over the khan Shig-Ahmed, and promise to pay him gifts every year.

That's a real eye-opener, man. Oh wait, it is not, because nowhere in the text King Alexander promises Mengli Giray anything of the sort.

You have a weird hatred for the Great Duchy of Lithuania, it seems.

[Sarmatian]

It was not that simple.

Large parts of Belarus became parts of the GDL as the result of marriages and alliances between Lithuanian and Belarusian rulers, rather than conquest. Of course as you know Belarus and Ukraine were fragmented into dozens of principalities by the time of Lithuanian expansion. Some of them were conquered, others united peacefully.

For some weird reason you failed to mention all of these principalities were Rus by culture, Orthodox by faith and at the time had spoken same language as the rest of Rus. But since we're talking about feudal period the most important is that all of these principalities were under system of Agnatic seniority. That system gave rights to members of Rurikid dynasty to claim these territories as their own and take them by force if needed. So when Ivan IV had launched Livonian campaign and taken Polotsk he was in his right to do so.