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Thread: Latin American genetic studies [official archive]

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Argentano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LESM View Post
    Several reason,the main one is that Brighton is saying that midle class venezuelans would be considered working class in Chile.
    oh ok..i tought you were talking about social class not being that important in this kind of genetic tests...

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    Veteran Member SupaThug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmv88 View Post
    oh ok..i tought you were talking about social class not being that important in this kind of genetic tests...
    Social class does play a big role in most Latin American countries,more in some countries less in others,I would never say otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LESM View Post
    Several reason,the main one is that Brighton is saying that midle class venezuelans would be considered working class in Chile.
    I didn't say that.

    I said SOME middle-class Venezuelans would be so.

    Also, I said it because of the implications that'd have in Alnortedelsur's analysis, not out of nowhere.

    Why do people here use words such a obsession/self-hatred/etc. so easily.. it's ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brighton View Post
    I didn't say that.

    I said SOME middle-class Venezuelans would be so.

    Also, I said it because of the implications that'd have in Alnortedelsur's analysis, not out of nowhere.

    Why do people here use words such a obsession/self-hatred/etc. so easily.. it's ridiculous.
    I doubt they would and I am sorry for misreading your comment,you know that I am not one of those members who hate you.Anyway,social classes are overly present in the discussions between latin americans here,even if it plays a big role regrading ancestry in LATAM,specially in some countries.

  5. #25
    Veteran Member alnortedelsur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brighton View Post
    Umm I think these concepts vary from country to country.

    I think a lot of people considered middle-class in Venezuela –simply because they don't live in a favela- would be considered working-class in Chile.
    It's not that not living in a favela is synonym of being middle class in Venezuela, but in the particular case of Caracas, most people who live in humble but decent housing, they use to earn enough money to cover their most basic needs, have a car, and many of them manage to send their kids to private schools and to access to private clinics, though at a higher effort than the middle class. This lower-middle class is not only made up of working class people, but also of many professionals, who due varied personal circumstances (or just because their profession is no so well paid as others) don't enjoy of so much good economic position compared to other professionals that are part of middle and upper middle class. And they're not considered middle class, but lower-middle class.

    Then, most people in the favelas are not starving, or anything like that. They have electricity and plumbing, and lots of them (in the favelas) even have iphones or smart phones, cable TV, wear clothes of good brands, and things like that. But that's is another issue that has nothing to do with this discussion, anyways.

    I was doing some research to answer more concisely the question made by CMV88, and its hard to answer, because there is no concensum among the different sources that I found searching on the Internet. However, most sources agree in that the lowest class (that in the case of Caracas, correspond to people living in favelas) are between 43-48% of the Venezuelan population.

    This are two different sources that I found (keep in mind that they talk about poverty levels in all Venezuela, not only in Caracas):

    http://www.eluniversal.com/economia/...de-los-hogares

    http://www.bcv.org.ve/c4/notasprensa...42&Operacion=2

    According to the second source above, the upper class is almost 6%, the middle and upper-middle class altogether are about 20%, and the lower-middle class is about 27% of the Venezuelan population.

    I am sure that people from Caracas living in favelas are not more than 50% of the total population from Caracas, and are probably less than that.

    Most black admixed people from Caracas live in the favelas. Then we have that people living in the favelas from Caracas are more likely no more than 50% of the population from Caracas (60% was a pessimistic highest estimation made by myself).There are some more black admixed people in the lower-middle class than in the middle and upper-middle class, but much less than in the lower class on the favelas, and there are also plenty of mestizos, harnizos castizos and whites in the lower-middle class. But anyways, according to the study posted by Birdman, people who assist to public clinics score less than 30% SSA.

    Lets assume that middle, upper-middle, and upper class, are altogether about 26% of the total population of Caracas (assuming that the socioeconomic classes in Caracas are in correspondence with the national average). Then, I would say that the lower-middle class is split between people who go to public clinics and people who thrive to assist to private clinics, because the attention in the public hospitals is awful, and assisting to a private clinic is not impossible for them, but at the cost of getting in debt, or they just can manage to go to private clinics, because their job insurance allows them to do so.

    I myself and my family were lower-middle class in Venezuela, and I am a quasi-white with some residual amerindian. My parents managed to send me to private schools, where many people had a higher status than me and my siblings, because lots of them were either middle, upper-middle or upper class, but we were in those private schools, and we also always managed to go to private clinics because the job insurance from my dad, made it possible. And there were many other cases as mine.

    My point is that being the case that people who assist to private clinics are at least 20-26% of people of middle, upper middle, and upper class plus many people of lower-middle class that prefer to go there (even at the cost of getting in debt) or they go because of their job insurance, then all this means that there is a decent percentage of people (lets say 35-40%) who assist to private clinics, and hence the overall European, Amerindian, and SSA contribution in the genome of the whole population from Caracas, must not be too far from the numbers you gave when you averaged the results of the study posted by Birdman, because the ratio between people who attend public clinics and those who attend private clinics is not 50/50, but is NOT 80/20 either.
    Last edited by alnortedelsur; 04-21-2015 at 06:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brighton View Post
    It you sum up upper and lower class according to this study, it gives you 54% European, 28.5% Amerindian and 17.5% African.. it could be even less European considering the lower classes tend to be greater than the upper classes..
    That study was done in Caracas not the whole country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMuller View Post
    That study was done in Caracas not the whole country.
    What's your point Chicanits??

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmv88 View Post
    i dont know how is it in venezuela but, if we were talking about argentina, separating between upper and lower class depending on public/private hospital wouldnt be right..

    60% of argentines go to private hospitals and 40% go to public hospitals...and this is not strange if we take into account that anybody who works for a company will have a "obra social" and will be able to attend a private hospital...even if you are working in a Mcdonalds...

    so, if we take into account 27% of argies are poor (latest non official result for 2014), then we can reach the conclusion that private hospital majority will be middle class...and public hospital minority will be low middle class....there will be a genetic difference (as i previously stated with the Bs As example) but not as big as upper vs lower class difference..

    http://www.faba.org.ar/fabainforma/432/General.html

    ¿Tan mala es la sanidad publica en Argentina o Venezuela como para que el 60% de la poblacion vaya a la sanidad privada?. Aqui donde vivo yo tengo la percepcion que la mayoria va a la sanidad publica , y que la mayoria de la clase media (el 70% ) va a la sanidad publica.

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    Quote Originally Posted by perikolez View Post
    ¿Tan mala es la sanidad publica en Argentina o Venezuela como para que el 60% de la poblacion vaya a la sanidad privada?. Aqui donde vivo yo tengo la percepcion que la mayoria va a la sanidad publica , y que la mayoria de la clase media (el 70% ) va a la sanidad publica.
    En Argentina los hospitales privados suelen ser mucho mejores que los publicos...no en RRHH pero si en maquinas, instrumentos, insumos...

    teniendo en cuenta que cualquiera que labure en un Mc Donalds tiene una obra social que le permite ir a un hospital privado...no me extraña esa alta concurrencia a los privados...

    Aparte tampoco hay que olvidarse que segun datos no oficiales (mas confiables) la pobreza en la argentina es de alrrededor del 25-30%...es decir que dentro de ese 40% publicos seguis teniendo gente de clase media (baja seguramente)

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    Si en Chile también la gente de clase media va a clínicas privadas y la gente de clase más baja va a hospitales públicos..

    Lo mismo con los colegios, clase media a colegios particulares y clase baja a liceos públicos..

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