Discussion of Irish genetics thread

[Brianna]

Did a meaningful number of SW Scottish gallowglass families settle in County Wicklow? If so, that might explain some of the genetic matches with residents of Argyll.

[Grace O'Malley]

Did a meaningful number of SW Scottish gallowglass families settle in County Wicklow? If so, that might explain some of the genetic matches with residents of Argyll.

Here's a good resource about the Gallowglass. There are maps with family names. As far as I'm aware the Gallowglass were mostly from the western highlands and the western isles.

http://www.irishorigenes.com/content...g-warrior-clan

[Brianna]

Here's a good resource about the Gallowglass. There are maps with family names. As far as I'm aware the Gallowglass were mostly from the western highlands and the western isles.

http://www.irishorigenes.com/content...g-warrior-clan

Thanks for posting the great map! I see eight ancestral names on it.

[Neon Knight]

I know it's all at a very fine scale level but that's the game we're playing. I have my doubts as to how real the Northwestern European cluster is - with samples from Normandy and western Poland the gaps around it might be filled in. But what I'm really getting at is the great number of DNA types in Europe which you can see on the continental map from PotBI:
http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/u...psbu3kb2rk.png
There are about 150 of them and that's not including most of eastern Europe. It seems very unlikely they can all be explained in terms of ancient migrations from the Middle East and the Steppes, and that's where I think genetic drift has made differences. Watching the women's soccer match between Norway and England last night, the general differences in their appearance were quite striking.

[Grace O'Malley]

I thought it would be interesting to add a fully Dutch person's results just for comparison purposes.

K23b

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 39.10
2 European_Early_Farmers 25.63
3 Caucasian 20.86
4 South_Central_Asian 7.48
5 Ancestral_Altaic 4.95


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Dutch @ 2.167851
2 Frisian @ 3.892905
3 Irish @ 3.907949
4 English @ 4.289088
5 North_European @ 4.480996
6 Belgian @ 4.754043
7 Norwegian_East @ 4.893184
8 South_German @ 5.756229
9 Icelandic @ 5.761944
10 Dane @ 5.865921
11 North_German @ 6.051839
12 Norwegian_West @ 6.226665
13 CEU @ 6.288168
14 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 6.613516
15 Swede @ 6.902081
16 British @ 7.013034
17 English_Kent_GBR @ 7.039017
18 German-Volga @ 7.049420
19 English_Cornwall_GBR @ 7.574684
20 Welsh @ 7.718755

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Dane +50% Irish @ 1.925629


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Dutch +25% Dutch +25% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.335841


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Dutch + Dutch + Dutch + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.335841
2 Dutch + Dutch + Icelandic + Irish @ 1.386161
3 Dutch + Dutch + Irish + Norwegian_East @ 1.464497
4 Dane + Dutch + Irish + Irish @ 1.486639
5 Dutch + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Swede_Saami @ 1.501753
6 Dutch + Dutch + Frisian + Icelandic @ 1.514111
7 British + Dutch + Irish + Swede_Saami @ 1.527318
8 German + Irish + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.529006
9 CEU + Dutch + Irish + Swede_Saami @ 1.546538
10 Dutch + Dutch + North_German + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.547264
11 Dutch + Frisian + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Swede_Saami @ 1.549330
12 Irish + Irish + Irish + Swede_Saami @ 1.563763
13 Dutch + Irish + Swede_Saami + Welsh @ 1.565857
14 Irish + Irish + North_European + Swede_Saami @ 1.572064
15 Dutch + Dutch + Dutch + Icelandic @ 1.585043
16 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Swede @ 1.589588
17 Frisian + Irish + Irish + Swede_Saami @ 1.595668
18 Dutch + Dutch + Dutch + Orcadian @ 1.608131
19 English + Irish + Irish + Swede_Saami @ 1.628341
20 Dutch + Irish + North_German + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.640681

K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 45.81
2 Baltic 25.63
3 West_Med 13.93
4 West_Asian 8.27
5 East_Med 2.14
6 South_Asian 1.92
7 Red_Sea 1.25


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 North_German @ 4.923114
2 North_Dutch @ 6.268648
3 Danish @ 6.421602
4 Orcadian @ 6.898032
5 South_Dutch @ 7.104421
6 Irish @ 7.196094
7 Southeast_English @ 7.319134
8 West_German @ 7.932683
9 Norwegian @ 8.037306
10 Southwest_English @ 8.078382
11 West_Scottish @ 8.418622
12 Swedish @ 8.509253
13 Austrian @ 11.503389
14 East_German @ 11.764949
15 French @ 13.749602
16 North_Swedish @ 14.093432
17 Hungarian @ 16.960688
18 Southwest_Finnish @ 22.092421
19 Spanish_Cataluna @ 22.179895
20 Croatian @ 22.610708

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +50% Irish @ 3.703439


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% Moldavian @ 2.536247


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + Moldavian @ 2.536247
2 Irish + Irish + Moldavian + West_Scottish @ 2.599511
3 Irish + Irish + Moldavian + Southwest_English @ 2.668729
4 Irish + Moldavian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.713356
5 Irish + Moldavian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.783343
6 Moldavian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.867695
7 Croatian + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 2.875846
8 Croatian + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.878552
9 Moldavian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.955430
10 Croatian + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 2.965227
11 Irish + Irish + Moldavian + Orcadian @ 2.984019
12 Croatian + Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.015722
13 Irish + Moldavian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.050404
14 Croatian + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.095219
15 East_German + Irish + Irish + South_Dutch @ 3.118083
16 Irish + Moldavian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.146729
17 Moldavian + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.160544
18 Irish + Moldavian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.174304
19 East_German + Irish + Irish + West_German @ 3.178066
20 Croatian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.204989

K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 34.16
2 Atlantic 25.86
3 Eastern_Euro 11.54
4 Baltic 10.73
5 West_Med 9.60
6 West_Asian 5.34
7 South_Asian 1.65


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 North_German @ 5.695917
2 Danish @ 5.703926
3 Southwest_English @ 5.852343
4 North_Dutch @ 6.002433
5 Southeast_English @ 6.412122
6 South_Dutch @ 7.103043
7 Irish @ 7.335548
8 West_Scottish @ 7.389573
9 Orcadian @ 8.074703
10 Norwegian @ 8.120387
11 West_German @ 8.487344
12 Swedish @ 9.540386
13 West_Norwegian @ 9.971842
14 North_Swedish @ 11.168015
15 East_German @ 11.846213
16 French @ 12.416887
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 15.823068
18 Austrian @ 17.489454
19 Hungarian @ 17.736780
20 Finnish @ 19.319359

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% East_German +50% Orcadian @ 3.737350


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% East_German +25% Orcadian +25% Orcadian @ 3.737350


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 East_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + South_Dutch @ 3.381867
2 Danish + East_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.429465
3 East_German + Norwegian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.553996
4 Moldavian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.575332
5 East_German + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.576754
6 East_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.591397
7 East_German + Norwegian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.591554
8 East_German + Orcadian + South_Dutch + West_Norwegian @ 3.606528
9 East_German + North_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.618669
10 Croatian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.620739
11 East_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.621767
12 East_German + Norwegian + Orcadian + South_Dutch @ 3.627261
13 East_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Norwegian @ 3.646570
14 North_Swedish + South_Dutch + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.671359
15 East_German + North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.679051
16 Danish + East_German + Orcadian + South_Dutch @ 3.693501
17 Danish + East_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.705398
18 East_German + North_Dutch + Orcadian + South_Dutch @ 3.730185
19 East_German + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 3.735465
20 North_Swedish + Orcadian + South_Dutch + South_Dutch @ 3.737051

[Graham]

I have a couple of Shetlanders, for anyone interested in the more Viking Influenced in the Isles in comparison to the Irish.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Grace O'Malley]

This person is from Co. Clare.



K23b

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 37.60
2 European_Early_Farmers 29.62
3 Caucasian 15.90
4 South_Central_Asian 8.98
5 Ancestral_Altaic 5.29


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.608621
2 Orcadian @ 2.635635
3 CEU @ 4.142742
4 British @ 4.448830
5 Welsh @ 4.869956
6 North_European @ 5.166975
7 English_Cornwall_GBR @ 5.526742
8 Irish @ 5.560146
9 Icelandic @ 5.665947
10 English @ 5.794205
11 English_Kent_GBR @ 6.280238
12 Norwegian_West @ 6.832584
13 Frisian @ 7.129538
14 Belgian @ 7.741580
15 Norwegian_East @ 8.113729
16 Dutch @ 8.548894
17 South_German @ 10.676671
18 Dane @ 10.894580
19 Swede @ 11.072256
20 German-Volga @ 11.428662

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR +50% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.608621


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR +25% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR +25% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.608621


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.608621
2 Orcadian + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.807415
3 Orcadian + Orcadian + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.044565
4 Icelandic + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.056195
5 CEU + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.163027
6 Icelandic + Orcadian + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.181516
7 Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.203804
8 Irish + Orcadian + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.209995
9 British + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.247052
10 North_European + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.264898
11 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.289358
12 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Welsh @ 2.296493
13 CEU + Orcadian + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.315100
14 Icelandic + Orcadian + Orcadian + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.327668
15 Icelandic + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Welsh @ 2.328989
16 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.338327
17 North_European + Orcadian + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.364207
18 English + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.401282
19 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.426255
20 English_Cornwall_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.441699

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 53.55
2 Baltic 21.00
3 West_Med 13.78
4 West_Asian 7.46
5 South_Asian 1.89


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_Scottish @ 4.022615
2 Irish @ 4.210718
3 Southwest_English @ 4.596782
4 Orcadian @ 5.761760
5 Southeast_English @ 7.153583
6 North_Dutch @ 7.853012
7 Danish @ 8.457731
8 Norwegian @ 9.411688
9 North_German @ 10.586303
10 South_Dutch @ 12.024341
11 Swedish @ 12.560256
12 West_German @ 13.647408
13 French @ 16.855646
14 North_Swedish @ 19.732794
15 Austrian @ 20.417089
16 East_German @ 20.792795
17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 23.770580
18 Southwest_French @ 24.118473
19 Spanish_Cantabria @ 24.722752
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 24.937925

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_English +50% West_Scottish @ 3.921718


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Southwest_English +25% West_Scottish @ 3.896171


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.861506
2 Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.866795
3 Irish + Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.896171
4 Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.916146
5 Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.921718
6 Irish + Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.943144
7 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 3.963592
8 Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.019545
9 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.022615
10 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.046933
11 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 4.117518
12 Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 4.168507
13 Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 4.177781
14 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 4.210718
15 Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.279713
16 Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 4.304043
17 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.348507
18 Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 4.374208
19 Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 4.381635
20 Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.382413

Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 34.94
2 North_Sea 31.90
3 Baltic 9.85
4 West_Med 8.48
5 Eastern_Euro 8.38
6 West_Asian 4.09
7 South_Asian 1.46


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 6.795004
2 Southeast_English @ 6.861788
3 West_Scottish @ 7.564810
4 Southwest_English @ 7.707890
5 North_German @ 9.314643
6 Danish @ 9.652011
7 Orcadian @ 9.960759
8 South_Dutch @ 10.066355
9 North_Dutch @ 10.416437
10 French @ 14.259816
11 Norwegian @ 14.967878
12 West_German @ 15.049388
13 West_Norwegian @ 15.760777
14 Swedish @ 16.202126
15 East_German @ 17.576481
16 North_Swedish @ 18.317375
17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 20.226503
18 Austrian @ 20.503696
19 Southwest_Finnish @ 20.970993
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 21.384266

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Southeast_English @ 6.672932


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +25% French_Basque +25% West_Scottish @ 4.197487


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + French_Basque + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.054193
2 Danish + French_Basque + Irish + West_Scottish @ 4.071798
3 French_Basque + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.089754
4 Danish + French_Basque + Irish + Irish @ 4.123115
5 French_Basque + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.131678
6 French_Basque + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.152865
7 French_Basque + Irish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 4.197481
8 Danish + Danish + French_Basque + West_Scottish @ 4.197487
9 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 4.206930
10 Danish + Danish + French_Basque + Irish @ 4.211479
11 French_Basque + North_German + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 4.221558
12 French_Basque + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.286119
13 French_Basque + Irish + North_German + Orcadian @ 4.286450
14 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 4.300716
15 Danish + French_Basque + North_German + West_Scottish @ 4.302416
16 Danish + French_Basque + Irish + Orcadian @ 4.302805
17 French_Basque + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 4.309122
18 Danish + French_Basque + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 4.328113
19 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 4.335797
20 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 4.378938

[Grace O'Malley]

Some interesting information has been released on the Irish DNA Atlas. Thanks goes to Heber on Anthrogenica for this information.

17.00 - The Irish DNA Atlas Project – update 23rd Oct 2016
(Edmund Gilbert, RCSI, IRL)
Subject: Autosomal DNA
Ed returns to give us an update on this milestone project for Irish genealogy. Over 200 people have been recruited, each with 8 great grandparents from the same geographic area (c.50km radius). This gives us a snapshot of Irish autosomal DNA from about 1850, prior to the major emigration of later years. Already the project has identified distinct genetic groups within the Irish population, many of them quite clearly geographically defined. But what else have they recently discovered?

Ireland clusters with
Scotland
Wales
NW France

Low Genetic Diversity
No recent large scale turnover

Bronze Age represent modern Irish DNA
Not Neolithic. Population replacement.

North South divide
230 samples collected
194 sequenced to date
One in ten samples accepted
Compared with POBI samples
fineStructure used
Very high computational resources

North/South/East Cluster
Planter Cluster
Nine regional clusters
Correspond to historic territories

GlobeTrotter Analysis (Migrations)
High Matches Ireland, Scotland, Wales, NW France - Historic Celtic countries
Low Matches Germany - Historic Anglo Saxon
Trace of Norwegian - Historic Viking Migration

Start Publication Process end 2016 start 2017

Really looking forward to when this is published. They are also studying Traveller dna.

Irish Travellers DNA
22K Travellers in Ireland
0.6% population
50 Samples collected

Group A Mixed Traveller/Settled
Group B Traveller Drifted/Isolated

Rathkeale (Town) Cluster
Cant (Language) Cluster
Gammon (Language) Cluster

[Grace O'Malley]

I've got to say going back over this thread we haven't done too badly at putting the genetics side of things together. The Irish do appear to get most of their genetics from the Bronze Age and it is interesting that the wording from the Irish DNA Atlas presentation is Bronze Age represent modern Irish DNA. Not Neolithic. Population replacement. I'm not surprised about this as this was basically what the Rathlin paper said.

http://www.pnas.org/content/113/2/368.full.pdf

I'm intrigued about North France (but not too surprised) and also the trace of Norwegian as from everything I've read I've always assumed that Viking imprint was non existent in Ireland. Anyway I'm happy to hear it shouldn't be too long until publication.

[Daco Celtic]

I have no idea where to post this but this is a cool, old school documentary on the history and tradition of horses in Ireland