Discussion of Irish genetics thread

[Gooding]

Not being Irish, my readings would be irrelevant here, but I do note with interest that there does seem to be a trend toward Holland on many of the Irish people's readings I'd noted in this thread.

[Brianna]

It's an interesting question but any Irish I've seen come out very close to Dutch. My top population on the K13 is North Dutch. They just have similar genetics despite one population being Germanic and the other being Celtic. I think the answer is that a lot of these populations have similar origins before language differences. A big chunk of their populations are most likely from Bell Beaker origin that came from the Rhine region.

I agree with you. I think they have similar origins. Perhaps a large group came from the Black Sea region or the Caucasus Mountains region. They travelled west. Some of them settled in southern regions while some of them settled in northern regions. Part of the latter group settled in the British Isles. Over time, the R1b split into Celtic and Germanic variations but they all came from the same ancient man. This is just a theory off the top of my head.

[Grace O'Malley]

Ran K13 for you on those. Would be interesting to see different Regions. If you have anymore.

I'll see if I come across any. It would be great to get someone with ancestry from just Co Cork or Co Donegal for example to see if there are any differences. Dublin has had people from all over Ireland going there especially over the last century.

[Petalpusher]

Mostly a North Sea population in my opinion, much like England. I don't think there is anything really surprising in getting a lot of N.Dutch/Frisian when North Sea is filtered out from the North-Atlantic component (broader, more modern component designed for UK). The rest comes in lower and almost equal measure (Baltic/West med)

[Grace O'Malley]

Mostly a North Sea population in my opinion, much like England. I don't think there is anything really surprising in getting a lot of N.Dutch/Frisian when North Sea is filtered out from the North-Atlantic component (broader, more modern component designed for UK). The rest comes in lower and almost equal measure (Baltic/West med)

It is completely the opposite to what people have been told for years. There is a lot of re-educating people and it is surprising the resistance of some people to what is obvious. I've had a chance to learn and get my head around it over the last few years but a lot of people are stuck on the Irish are Celtic and the English, Dutch etc are Germanic so they are different. They are different culturally (not even much culturally these days) but genetically not so much.

[Grace O'Malley]

I agree with you. I think they have similar origins. Perhaps a large group came from the Black Sea region or the Caucasus Mountains region. They travelled west. Some of them settled in southern regions while some of them settled in northern regions. Part of the latter group settled in the British Isles. Over time, the R1b split into Celtic and Germanic variations but they all came from the same ancient man. This is just a theory off the top of my head.

Yes the group are Yamnaya who were the precursors to Bell Beaker. This is where R1b came from and looking at genetics it is obvious to see. Southern Europe had a higher population so aren't as high in Yamnaya genes whereas Northern Europe appear to have a larger share of Yamnaya due to the lower populations they encountered on their journey from the Steppes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/sc...eans.html?_r=1

[Petalpusher]

It is completely the opposite to what people have been told for years. There is a lot of re-educating people and it is surprising the resistance of some people to what is obvious. I've had a chance to learn and get my head around it over the last few years but a lot of people are stuck on the Irish are Celtic and the English, Dutch etc are Germanic so they are different. They are different culturally (not even much culturally these days) but genetically not so much.

I was very surprised myself to find out Irish and English are almost indistinguishable genetically. There is way more variation inside big countries like Germany, France, Italy... Phenotypically the differences and the so called "Irish look" must come from slightly different local selection processes but the basic genetic pool remains mostly the same.

[Grace O'Malley]

I was very surprised myself to find out Irish and English are almost indistinguishable genetically. There is way more variation inside big countries like Germany, France, Italy... Phenotypically the differences and the so called "Irish look" must come from slightly different local selection processes but the basic genetic pool remains mostly the same.

There might be some fine scale differences like they found in the PoBI study but the majority of both populations come from the same source so that is why they cluster together. I think people are just getting their head around this in the last few years. One of the most interesting things that came out this year was the R1b from the Steppes and I think this is very important in understanding the genetics of many different groups of people in Europe. The Irish DNA Atlas is due out possibly the end of the year or at least sometime next year. People had to have 8 grandparents from the same area (county) which is one of the most stringent criteria for genetic testing I've come across. I'm not eligible for this because I have grandparents from 3 different counties. The results of the Irish DNA Atlas should be quite comprehensive and when done will be joined with PoBI.

http://www.familyhistory.ie/index.ph...04-22-23-12-47

http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Irish_DNA_Atlas_Project

[Neon Knight]

I was very surprised myself to find out Irish and English are almost indistinguishable genetically. There is way more variation inside big countries like Germany, France, Italy... Phenotypically the differences and the so called "Irish look" must come from slightly different local selection processes but the basic genetic pool remains mostly the same.

I agree, and I think your point about phenotype differences being due to local genetic variation is probably true - the genetics change enough to give some different hair colouring and slightly different facial features but not enough to make much difference to autosomal DNA relations.

It would be interesting to see where the Welsh come in all this.

[FeederOfRavens]

Well put. It just confirms how meta-ethnicities mean little in genetics talk.

North Dutch are still closer to other Germanics like Danes, Norwegians and North Germans. One thing I don't get is the Southern Dutch, it's like they're in another universe judging from what Graham posted.