Celts a Mediterranean people?

[Creoda]

They wouldn't have caused such a southern shift. They aren't that much more southern than the SE English. The population would need to be more Neolithic or Sardinian like. The Ango-Saxon input with Native Britons combined with something Gaul like would not give people that much of a shift. I'm betting it just a higher amount of Neolithic farmer that was always there. If other countries were examined there is most likely some differences in them as well.

I just think a large input from Gauls/Belgae/Northern French over 3000 years, plus a small Mediterranean input from the Roman period, can explain it pretty well. I can't see why it wouldn't. Modern Northern French have significantly more Neolithic ancestry than Insular Celts. That there was a Neolithic holdout in Southern Britain is also possible, but that is more likely in mountainous/fringe regions like Cornwall or Wales than the South East that has seen most population change.

I hate to always use personal individual examples but my mother plots around halfway between Iron Age Britons and (non-British admixed) Anglo-Saxons in Davidski's ancient PCA, and yet is still more Neolithic/Southern shifted than Insular Celts.

[Creoda]

They wouldn't have caused such a southern shift. They aren't that much more southern than the SE English. The population would need to be more Neolithic or Sardinian like. The Ango-Saxon input with Native Britons combined with something Gaul like would not give people that much of a shift. I'm betting it just a higher amount of Neolithic farmer that was always there. If other countries were examined there is most likely some differences in them as well.

btw, the Southern/Neolithic shift between English and Irish we're talking about is around 2%. Between English and Scots/Welsh less. Hardly a huge amount. Nordics have 2-3% less Neolithic than Insular Celts. Belgians (the best modern approximation of Ancient Gauls?) have around 7-8% more Neolithic than Insular Celts. East French are 9-10% more Neolithic.

[tipirneni]

Irrespective of % diff the chunks of segments matching 1-on-1 between Celtic matches such as Irish/Scot/Welsh/German is higher than English for South Asians with some higher farmer background/megalithic & chalcolithic time trading background

for eg. Many matches with >10+ segments. but some with big number of small matches similar to closer people in South Asians. There are not any pure English ones producing such big hits except for German Celtic/Baltic mix samples

I get on 100/1 guy in kilkenny

Largest segment = 5.6 cM
Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 642.2 cM (17.906 Pct)
442 shared segments found for this comparison.
610473 SNPs used for this comparison.
53.349 Pct SNPs are full identical

North Ireland
Largest segment = 12.2 cM
Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 159.7 cM (4.456 Pct)
57 shared segments found for this comparison.
156268 SNPs used for this comparison.

some on in Orcadia

Largest segment = 5.0 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 100.2 cM
46 matching segments
360977 SNPs used for this comparison.

(Rathlin1 IrelandBA)
Largest segment = 3.6 cM
Total of segments > 2 cM = 34.7 cM
14 matching segments
652263 SNPs used for this comparison.

Ballynahatty IrelandNE
Largest segment = 3.3 cM
Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 36.0 cM (1.0 Pct)
23 shared segments found for this comparison.
610993 SNPs used for this comparison.

[Bellbeaking]

btw, the Southern/Neolithic shift between English and Irish we're talking about is around 2%. Between English and Scots/Welsh less. Hardly a huge amount. Nordics have 2-3% less Neolithic than Insular Celts. Belgians (the best modern approximation of Ancient Gauls?) have around 7-8% more Neolithic than Insular Celts. East French are 9-10% more Neolithic.

It isn't a big difference. Romans could have caused it? I mean if soldiers where sent to Britain they must have raped some women right?

[Bellbeaking]

I just think a large input from Gauls/Belgae/Northern French over 3000 years, plus a small Mediterranean input from the Roman period, can explain it pretty well. I can't see why it wouldn't. Modern Northern French have significantly more Neolithic ancestry than Insular Celts. That there was a Neolithic holdout in Southern Britain is also possible, but that is more likely in mountainous/fringe regions like Cornwall or Wales than the South East that has seen most population change.

How would a Neolithic hold out have lasted for so long? Like 1000's of years, when the Yamnaya offshoots where known for conquering, it seems unlikely they wouldn't have taken the women sooner than that.

[lonewolfcypriot]

no, I believe the Mediterranean people who live in Ireland, Scotland and Wales are just remnants of the people who lived there before the Bell-Beakers came.

[brennus dux gallorum]

I'd doubt it would be populations that brought the Celtic language to Britain that caused a southern shift in the SE English. The Celts grew out of Bell Beaker populations anyway but he's thinking possible Celtic languages came after which is odd because the other Celts i.e. Welsh, Irish and Scots don't have this more southern pull that the SE English get. Reich has also suggested it could be from Romans or a hold out Neolithic population that mixed back in.

The SE English are the least Celtic population in the UK with the least amount of R1b-L21 so it will be interesting what they come up with.

they didn't

[TheOldNorth]

The Celts are an Atlantic people, different to Mediterraneans & German/Balto-slavic peoples. The original Celtic speaker lived in the British isle, western France, & western Spain & Portugal. The especially north European looking Celts (besides those with red hair, which is also linked to skin whitening genes) likely have some trace Germanic ancestry, as do dark tan Celts with Mediterranean ancestry. The OG Celts were somewhere in between.