Celts a Mediterranean people?

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...-are-some-dark

Ignore the troll who started the thread, the proofs given by the other people in the thread that Celts are a Mediterranean people is very interesting. The idea is that rather than emerging from central Europe Celts originated in Iberia and spread from there. Lots of discussion about how Iberians are mostly Celtic both culturally and genetically, and Welsh and Irish are genetic cousins.

So Iberians, French (Gauls), North Italians, Irish and Welsh are all the same people maybe. The conclusion is that Celts are a Mediterranean people, unrelated to Germanics and Slavs before these groups mixed. I know for a fact the Romans described Welsh people as swarthy and as having curly black hair. Perhaps the Celts were a darker people originally. People associate Celts as very light people but the truth is perhaps they were originally a darker people. Also I heard red hair evolves from black hair.

Discuss

[Gooding]

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...-are-some-dark

Ignore the troll who started the thread, the proofs given by the other people in the thread that Celts are a Mediterranean people is very interesting. The idea is that rather than emerging from central Europe Celts originated in Iberia and spread from there. Lots of discussion about how Iberians are mostly Celtic both culturally and genetically, and Welsh and Irish are genetic cousins.

So Iberians, French (Gauls), North Italians, Irish and Welsh are all the same people maybe. The conclusion is that Celts are a Mediterranean people, unrelated to Germanics and Slavs before these groups mixed. I know for a fact the Romans described Welsh people as swarthy and as having curly black hair. Perhaps the Celts were a darker people originally. People associate Celts as very light people but the truth is perhaps they were originally a darker people. Also I heard red hair evolves from black hair.

Discuss

The evidence is interesting and I don't really see anything to contradict it. If ( as has been postulated) the Celts were a mélange of people rather than a single " race," tied together by common languages and tribal bonds, there's no reason why they would not have been originally Mediterranean ( at least in part). Irish legends ( carried to Scotland by Gaelic settlers) propose an origin in Spain and that the Iberians and Celts had by that time and in that area of Northwestern Spain amalgamated into Celtiberians. Let's not forget the Gaulish input into Britain ( whence, apparently, came " Brythons"), whose people were also a mix of fair and dark. Here are some links that might be of interest: http://www.celticlifeintl.com/celtiberians/ ,
http://history-of-england.blogspot.c...n-britain.html , http://www.irishwolf.net/celthx/chistory.html , http://schools-wikipedia.org/wp/s/Se...nd_Ireland.htm , http://www.romanobritain.org/4-celt/...m#.VWSaj-lFAdV , http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/.../iron_age.html . My father, his father and my uncles all had the dark hair and tanned complexion of the Daniels family ( my gg grandmother. The Doves and Goodings were generally blue- eyed and my gg grandfather Gooding was tall, blonde and blue eyed, judging by his photo) and I'm led to believe that perhaps that was due to a Welsh or Cornish infusion so far back as to be barely worth a mention today, except that the phenotype remains. The McDonalds tend to be a mix of pale and pale with dark brown hair. In any event, it is interesting to see the wide diversity of people that exist in the United Kingdom and in their cousins in the New World and Down Under today.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

bump

[Anglojew]

No, Celts were an Indo-European people (blonde) who intermarried with Med/Neolithic populations upon entering Europe and spreading west.

[Smeagol]

The Iberian genetic base is heavily Celtic. In fact, one of the most prestigious scientific journals in the world, The Oxford University Journal of Molecular Biology and Evolution, codifies the Western European genetic substratum as BASQUE / NORTHERN IBERIAN (Proto-Celtic), of which the Spanish, Portuguese, Irish, Cornish, Scottish and Welsh total more than 70% each and the Bretons and English about 60%. Iberia is nearly 3/4 Celtic, with the remainder being mainly Sub-Mediterranean (meaning with some Atlantic influences)

Lol, no.

[Pennywise]

If I was good remember, according to some scholars, Celts might be Indo-Europeanized native european folk.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

They are darker because they mixed with north africans when muslims came.

As for celts being blonde, nope. Blond hair is not associated at all with r1b y-dna. Brown, red and some black hair are.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Celtic is simply a language, and it didn't start out in the British Isles, the British Isles simply holds the remnants of the speakers. Celtic culture/language started around Bohemia, it's more than likely the population was Nordish. As for the remnants of Celtic speakers today/British Isle natives, yeah, they're similar to Mediterraneans.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Celtic is simply a language, and it didn't start out in the British Isles, the British Isles simply holds the remnants of the speakers. Celtic culture/language started around Bohemia, it's more than likely the population was Nordish. As for the remnants of Celtic speakers today/British Isle natives, yeah, they're similar to Mediterraneans.

Maybe the Irish are the most isolated British Isle natives, so they look the closest to Mediterraneans. I mean phenotypically. Red hair doesn't mean that they are not like that either, rather red hair confirms those older genetics.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Maybe the Irish are the most isolated British Isle natives, so they look the closest to Mediterraneans. I mean phenotypically. Red hair doesn't mean that they are not like that either, rather red hair confirms those older genetics.

Ireland would be third after Cornwall/Devon then Wales. Lots of black haired Med look people in those three areas, as well as West Scotland. I'm actually pretty dumbfounded about the whole red hair and black hair Med look situation in Ireland/Wales, not sure how the two are related or why they both seem to be native to the area.