Celts a Mediterranean people?

[Fantomas]

Some of them-definitely were of Med. race! We can't ignore ancient authors

One of the most unique and rich grave in Western Halstatt zone

Figure 6. Norma lateralis (uppermost), Norma facialis (lower left), and Norma verticalis
(lower right) views of the reconstructed Vix cranial remains (Source: Sauter 1980: Fig. 1, p. 91).
© Masson Editeur.

We don't know surely about Princess of Vix pigmentation, maybe she was Nordic, but her scull and face reconstruction most closely resembles Gracile Med.

Majority of Continental and Island Celts were comparatively light for sure. Hard to say what was the percentage of Nordids among them. I'd say about 30-50 % in Iron Age.

[Fantomas]

"The Gauls are described as tall and of great physical strength, with a fair skin and blonde hair, which they often reddened by artificial means. Men of rank and of authority wore the hair andbeard long. The more barbarous tribes gave themselves a terrible aspect by painting hideous devices on their half-naked bodies. Their voices were rough and harsh, their words few, and their language obscure and figurative. Disparaging others, boastful of themselves, arrogant, fond of idleness, they were very quarrelsome and always ready to fight, to relieve the monotony of their existence, if for no other reason. They were, however, high-spirited and brave to utter recklessness and contempt for death."

Caesar's description of the Gauls doesn't seem so Mediterranean to me. I remember reading that some of the Gaulish and Germanic slaves had their heads shaved so that the Greeks and Romans could make blonde wigs.

Suetonius, The Lives of the Caesars

The Life of Caligula

47.Then turning his attention to his triumph, in addition to a few captives and deserters from the barbarians he chose all the tallest of the Gauls, and as he expressed it, those who were "worthy of a triumph," as well as some of the chiefs. These he reserved for his parade, compelling them not only to dye their hair red and to let it grow long, but also to learn the language of the Germans and assume barbarian names.

Viewed on a larger scale Celts were different from Germans. However, i really doubt that all of the early Germans looked like tween brothers. But one conclusion can be drawn clearly: percentage of depigmented people was higher among Germanic tribes

[Fantomas]

It depends what you mean by Germanic. The 25-40% figure is an estimate of specifically Anglo-Saxon ancestry. If we total all the correspondances for Scandinavia + Germany it comes to about 43% for the English, 41% for the Welsh and 50% for the Scots:

CENTRAL/SOUTH ENGLISH
Norway/Sweden/Denmark/Germany 43%
Belgium 9%
France 47% (inc. slight Spanish)

NORTH WELSH
Norway/Sweden/Denmark/Germany 46%
Belgium 5%
France 40%
Spain 7%

SOUTH SCOTS
Nor/SwedDenmark/Germany 50%
Belgium 11%
France 34%
Spain 4%

I do think GEDmatch exaggerates the proximity of Brits/Irish to Germans, but not by a lot.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v519/n7543/full/nature14230.html

Nothing surprising that Norse component in Brit. Isles just a minority. Even at Orkney islands Norse consists no more than 25 %.

If the pre-Roman Welsh really were of black curly hair then they have mostly disappeared.

Really?!

[Grace O'Malley]

I think Fantomas you have to look at genetics. The Celts appear to have evolved from Bell Beakers. A new book will be out shortly and I think this will answer a lot of questions about the Celts as they use the latest genetics as well as archaeology and linguistics to answer the question.

[Fantomas]

I think Fantomas you have to look at genetics.

I'm trying to look at all

The Celts appear to have evolved from Bell Beakers.

Considering that Bell Beakers were very massive brachycephals and Iron Age Celts- cracile dolichocephals (on the traditional view), Bell Beakers were not a single component in Celtic ethnogenesis and even not the main.

[Grace O'Malley]

I'm trying to look at all


Considering that Bell Beakers were very massive brachycephals and Iron Age Celts- cracile dolichocephals (on the traditional view), Bell Beakers were not a single component in Celtic ethnogenesis and even not the main.

Well Bell Beakers appear to be a big part of Irish genetics anyway. Celts are very wide spread but the new book is called The Blood of the Celts by Jean Manco.

http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Celts-Th.../dp/0500051836

[Tekken]

The native peoples of Iberia, Italy (Italia), were latin tribes (Italic peoples).
The so called Celtic peoples inhabited Gaul & the British Isles.
Northern Italy & SouthEast France are definitely Gallic not meditteranean (Italic/Latin).
Ligurians were the Celtic peoples inhabiting these regions.

To basically conflagrate the meditterean peoples inhabiting Iberia & the Gauls, would be erroneous.
Back in Roman times, the Romans already called the Iberians a very specific race (slender, tall, hair jet-black = Basically typical spaniards).
The Gauls were typical Celts (Brown haired, sometimes blonde, tall, etc). A very different race.

[Fantomas]

The native peoples of Iberia, Italy (Italia), were latin tribes (Italic peoples).
The so called Celtic peoples inhabited Gaul & the British Isles.

Also Western, Central and Northern Iberia

Celtic placenames

Northern Italy & SouthEast France are definitely Gallic not meditteranean (Italic/Latin).

I think we're talking about different meaning of word "Mediterranean" here

Ligurians were the Celtic peoples inhabiting these regions.

I don't think so

Strabo.II.5

Many tribes occupy these mountains, all Celtic except the Ligurians; but while these Ligurians belong to a different race, still they are similar to the Celts in their modes of life.

Diodor

Since we have discussed the Gauls, the Celtiberians, and the Iberians, we shall pass on to the Ligurians. The Ligurians inhabit a land which is stony and altogether wretched, and the life they live is, by reason of the toils and the continuous hardships they endure in their labour, a grievous one and unfortunate. 2 For the land being thickly wooded, some of them fell the wood the whole day long, equipped with efficient and heavy axes, and others, whose task it is to prepare the ground, do in fact for the larger part quarry out rocks by reason of the exceeding stoniness of the land; for their tools never dig up a clod without a stone. Since their labour entails such hardship as this, it is only by perseverance that they surmount Nature and that after many distresses they gather scanty harvests, and no more. By reason of their continued physical activity and minimum of nourishment the Ligurians are slender and vigorous of body. To aid them in their hardships they have their women, who have become accustomed to labour on an equal basis with the men. 3 They are continually hunting, whereby they get abundant game and compensate in this way for the lack of the fruits of the field. Consequently, spending their lives as they do on snow-covered mountains, where they are used to traversing unbelievably rugged places, they become vigorous and muscular of body. 4 Some of the Ligurians, because of the lack among them of the fruits of the earth, drink nothing but water, and they eat the flesh of both domestic and wild animals and fill themselves with the green things which grow in the land, the land they possess being untrodden by the most kindly of the gods, namely, Demeter and Dionysus.The nights the Ligurians spend in the fields, rarely in a kind of crude shanty or hut, more often in the hollows of rocks and natural caves which may offer them sufficient protection. 6 In pursuance of these habits they have also other practices wherein they preserve the manner of life which is primitive and lacking in implements. Speaking generally, in these regions the women possess the vigour and might of men, and the men those of wild beasts. Indeed, they say that often times in campaigns the mightiest warrior among the Gauls has been challenged to single combat by a quite slender Ligurian and slain

Clearly Celts and Ligurians are different races, though by the time Celtic incomers were mixed with locals. If you mean gradual Celtization of Ligurians- i agree

To basically conflagrate the meditterean peoples inhabiting Iberia & the Gauls, would be erroneous.
Back in Roman times, the Romans already called the Iberians a very specific race (slender, tall, hair jet-black = Basically typical spaniards).
The Gauls were typical Celts (Brown haired, sometimes blonde, tall, etc). A very different race.

Considering that Celts inhabit big part of Iberia and one third of Gallic population looked like Iberians, i can't agree that historical Celts belonged to Nordic race totally

[ThePrince]

The Celts in Iberia were a small minority who dominated over a large native population.

The territories of Northern Italy, Austria, Switzerland and Southern Germany were the center of Celtic and proto Celtic ethnogenesis, in the late Bronze Age-Early Iron Age, before the split between Italics and Celts.

Before 1500 BC Italics and Celts were part of the same ethnic group.

[Grace O'Malley]

While populations have Celtic input you have to also consider what populations they mixed with as well. It would be highly unlikely today there are any pure Celts as we all know. This is the reason why all those previous Celtic regions don't appear to be very close genetic wise today. The so called Celtic Fringe and Brittany are close genetically but even the Galicians are not very close to people like the Scots and Irish.