Conlangs

[Sahson]

Any of you guys created Constructed languages? If so could you kindly share some information about them, how many words you have in the vocabulary, etc. how it works grammar structure, so on.

Thanks.

[Hrolf Kraki]

Are you talking strictly made-up langauges or producing re-constructions of dead languages?

I mean, inventing Klingon was fucking retarded, but the linguists who re-constructed PIE did some fine work!

[Sahson]

just made-up, however I agree I have read alot on PIE, and some Proto-Baltic, and impressed to say the least about how they managed to do so.

I guess Apricitians are too fussed over conlangs, so quite happy for this to become about reconstructed extinct languages.

[Hrolf Kraki]

I don't like made-up languages because it's a waste of time. One could be learning a real language that people actually speak that would benefit them to know it, but instead squander their time with irrelavencies.


But I'd be happy to talk about PIE, or better yet, proto-Germanic. I read just The Syntax of the Simple Sentence in Proto-Germanic in April and was amazed at the author's findings. Quite interesting!

[Crossbow]

I don't like made-up languages because it's a waste of time. One could be learning a real language that people actually speak that would benefit them to know it, but instead squander their time with irrelavencies.


But I'd be happy to talk about PIE, or better yet, proto-Germanic. I read just The Syntax of the Simple Sentence in Proto-Germanic in April and was amazed at the author's findings. Quite interesting!

Look at the Esperanto speakers: about 2 million people (when I'm not mistaken) scattered around the world. They meet each other only to speak this artificial language, like if it were some kind of hobby. And before Esperanto various attempts were made to construct artificial languages, and all of them failed. I agree with you: it's rather useless I would say.

[Osweo]

They meet each other only to speak this artificial language, like if it were some kind of hobby.

I believe they were rounded up and sent off to the KZen or GULag at times, for this 'hobby'!
http://www.u-matthias.de/latino/latin_en.htm

At the end of the 1930s both "Espero Katolika" and "Dia Regno" were being edited in the Netherlands. After
World War Two began, both periodicals were prevented from reaching most of their subscribers. "Espero
Katolika" of January/February 1940 was the last issue until the end of the war. On the 10th of May 1940 German
troops occupied Holland and February 1941 saw the final issue of "Dia Regno" because in March "the entire
Esperanto movement in Holland was banned as 'a Jewish affair'". However Christian Esperantists did not
entirely cease their activities during the Second World War: from 1941 to 1945 KELI's Swedish section
distributed a total of seven issues of "Temporary Dia Regno", but these reached only a small percentage of the
addressees.

In the countries ruled by Hitler and Stalin, Esperantists were among the victims of those dictators. In Germany
some Esperantists were arrested and sent to concentration camps merely because of their work for Esperanto;
others were arrested primarily for being of Jewish descent or for their general pacifist involvement. The victims
of Nazism include all three of Zamenhof's children. They had been arrested in January 1940. Zamenhof's only
son, Adam, was immediately shot; the daughters Zofia and Lidja were sent to the Treblinka concentration camp
in 1942 where they were killed in August and October respectively of that same year. The Esperantist and
founder of the Una-Sancta Movement, Max Josef Metzger, was arrested in 1943 and sentenced to death for
treason; on the 17th of April 1944 he was beheaded.

The Soviet dictator Stalin regarded as suspect anyone who had international contacts and to that category the
Esperantists also belonged. According to various estimates, in the "Great Purge" launched on a massive scale
in March 1937, a total of between 2,000 and 30,000 Esperantists perished. Stalin's victims included famous
Esperanto writers or Esperantologists such as Vladimir Varankin (1902-1938) and Ernest Drezen
(1892-1937).

http://raforum.info/spip.php?article3664&lang=fr

In March 1925 a "Berlin Group of Anarcho-Syndicalist Esperantists" greeted the 2nd Congress of the International Workers’ Association (IWA), which was then being held in Amsterdam. It stated that in the German IWA section, the FAUD, Esperanto had "taken root to such an extent that a world organisation of Esperantists on a libertarian-antiauthoritarian basis has been established". This is probably a reference to the TLES [which translates approximately as "World League of Stateless Esperantists"], which was founded in the 1920s, as SAT was subject to strong communist influence in the beginning. TLES appears to have later been absorbed by SAT.

The workers’ Esperanto movement was especially strong in Germany and the USSR, where, among other things, the "Scientific Anarchist Library of the International Language" (ISAB) was founded in 1923. It published Ethics by Kropotkin, Anarchismby Borovoi and other works for an international readership in Esperanto. One of the important centres of activity for anarchist Esperantists during this period was the Far East, China and Japan. In these countries Esperanto quickly became a topic of popular attention thanks to anarchists. A few journals, mainly bilingual, were published. Starting in 1913, Liu Shifu (his nickname : Sifo) published the journal La Voĉo de l’Popolo [The Voice of the People]. It was the first anarchist periodical ever to appear in China. In the beginning, the information in its Chinese-language section stemmed mainly from the aforementioned Internacia Socia Revuo. Liu Shifu died in 1915 at a young age. There were many anarchists and socialists among the first Japanese Esperantists. They were repeatedly subjected to persecution. In 1931 the journal La Anarkiistoceased to appear when its editors were put in prison. Anarchist Esperantists suffered a major setback when many of them were murdered or sent to labour camps during the persecution of Soviet Esperantists (see II. 3. Repression). Esperanto had a minor role in the International Brigades during the Spanish Civil War (1936-39). From 1936-39 a weekly information bulletin of the CNT/FAI was published by ILES (Iberian League of Esperantist Anarchists). The CNT/FAI radio station also had broadcasts in Esperanto.

3. Repression

The history of Esperanto has included not only harassment and disparagement, but also outright bans and persecutions. Esperanto has been viewed by various regimes as a "dangerous language" (which is the title of a very commendable work noted in the Bibliography) : As early as 1895 the journal La Esperantisto was disallowed from entering tsarist Russia ; in 1922 the teaching of Esperanto was banned from French schools ; in 1935 the teaching of Esperanto (which had been an optional subject at "free schools") was prohibited in Germany ; in 1936 Esperanto itself was banned in Germany and Portugal ; from the mid-30s onward, publications of SAT along with anarchist publications could no longer enter the USSR. As Stalinist repression increased, the activities of the once strong Soviet Esperanto movement were subjected to ever greater limitations. In a swift move in 1937, many of the most active Esperantists were arrested and either shot or sent off to prison camps. Esperanto was from then on ostracised and strictly forbidden as a "product of bourgeois internationalism and cosmopolitanism" ; starting in 1938, Esperanto was banned in all territories that had been occupied or annexed by Germany.

These prohibitions and persecutions greatly hampered and inhibited the Esperanto movement, and with it the propagation and development of the International Language.

Even after World War II there was to be no easy fresh start in 1945. Under Stalin’s influence, Esperanto groups were prohibited in East Germany in 1949, followed by a ban in Hungary in 1950 and Czechoslovakia in 1952. After Stalin’s death there was a slow revival of the Esperanto movement in Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and the Soviet Union, followed in 1965 by East Germany, in which the Esperanto movement was able to organise within the Culture League.

I reckon you can't build a GOOD conlang unless you know an immense amount about many real languages from different typologies and genetic phyla. Otherwise, despite your best efforts, a good linguist will be able to look at what you've done and pinpoint your own native language very easily...

[Crossbow]

I believe they were rounded up and sent off to the KZen or GULag at times, for this 'hobby'!
http://www.u-matthias.de/latino/latin_en.htm


http://raforum.info/spip.php?article3664&lang=fr


I reckon you can't build a GOOD conlang unless you know an immense amount about many real languages from different typologies and genetic phyla. Otherwise, despite your best efforts, a good linguist will be able to look at what you've done and pinpoint your own native language very easily...

Nevertheless, the Esperanto system isn't that bad; but it simply doesn't have the desired effect, and it sounds awful.
Indeed, the Esperantists were severely persecuted because they were pacifists and believed they would be able to make the world a better place by bringing people together with Esperanto. Zamenhoff was a Jew.

[lei.talk]

every objectivist of my acquaintance
rushed to purchase the latest by libertarian author
robert a. heinlein - the moon is a harsh mistress.

after wiping our tears
(shed over the death of doc smith)

many of us, then,
proceeded to investigate james cooke brown's creation -

a very few continued studying the topic.

[Sahson]

I believe they were rounded up and sent off to the KZen or GULag at times, for this 'hobby'!
http://www.u-matthias.de/latino/latin_en.htm


http://raforum.info/spip.php?article3664&lang=fr


I reckon you can't build a GOOD conlang unless you know an immense amount about many real languages from different typologies and genetic phyla. Otherwise, despite your best efforts, a good linguist will be able to look at what you've done and pinpoint your own native language very easily...

I have to agree with you there. The best conlangs I have seen are from people that have studied linguistics for over 10 years. However those people design the most complex languages I have come across. Ithkuil is rediculously complex, and I could never imagine anyone being able to master it.

As for Esperanto, the more I look into Indo-european languages, the more I am impressed about how well thought out it has been. However I agree it is a horrible language to speak.

Nevertheless, the Esperanto system isn't that bad; but it simply doesn't have the desired effect, and it sounds awful.
Indeed, the Esperantists were severely persecuted because they were pacifists and believed they would be able to make the world a better place by bringing people together with Esperanto. Zamenhoff was a Jew.

Again as I have mention. I have looked in Sanskrit, Urdu, and Hindu, and I'm quite impressed that Esperanto manages to share some elements among these languages, though they are not as significant as European languages. The problem with Esperanto is... many things, and it's a terrible language to speak.

Lingua Franca Nova, is personally my favourite IAL. I have managed to speak to some spanish/catalan speakers, and some Italian. Okay sometimes there's a word I use that isn't in their language, but the next one I use, or after trying to clear things up, we then come to an understanding. Plus its a very nice language to use, and very simple language.

But it's downfall is essentially is that its a very young language, and does not have the depth of esperanto, yet alone a natural language.

[The Ripper]

A friend and I created our own secret alphabet when we were kids, complete with short handbooks that allowed us to decipher the messages.