What Language Group (Or Proto-Language group) Did West European Hunter-Gatherers (WHG) Belong To?

[Anglojew]

West European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG) are one of the three ancient components among selected European populations defined as the:

ancestral component is based on an 8,000 year old forager from the Loschbour rock shelter in Luxembourg, who belonged to Y-chromosome haplogroup I2a1b. However, today the WHG component peaks among Estonians and Lithuanians, in the East Baltic region, at almost 50%

The associated Y-DNA haplogroup I is defined as:

Haplogroup I is the oldest major haplogroup in Europe and in all probability the only one that originated there (apart from very minor haplogroups like C6 and deep subclades of other haplogroups). It is thought to have arrived from the Middle East as haplogroup IJ sometime between 40,000 and 30,000 years ago, and developed into haplogroup I approximately 25,000 years ago. In other words, Cro-Magnons most probably belonged to IJ and I (alongside older haplogroups like F and C6).

It has been speculated that I1 evolved in isolation in Scandinavia during the late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods, when hunter-gatherers from southern Europe recolonised the northern half of the continent from their LGM refugia. The oldest attested evidence of postglacial resettlement of Scandinavia dates from 11,000 BCE with the appearance of the Ahrensburg culture.

It is therefore possible that I1 lineages were among the Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers assimilated by the wave of East Mediterranean Neolithic farmers (represented chiefly by Y-haplogroup G2a). There is also evidence from the Neolithic samples of the Early Neolithic Starčevo and Cardium Pottery cultures that haplogroup I2a lived alongside G2a farmers both in south-east and south-west Europe.

The most likely hypothesis at present is that I1 and I2 lineages were dispersed around Europe during the Mesolithic, and that some branches prospered more than others thanks to an early adoption of agriculture upon contact with the Near Eastern farmers who were slowly making their way across the Balkans and the Mediterranean shores. The small group of farmers from the early LBK culture from Hungary might have formed a blend of I1 and G2a men. Yet distinct families would have spread in different directions and met varying successes in their expansion. It would appear that a founder effect in the northern LBK population led to a sudden explosion of I1 lineages, perhaps in part thanks to their better knowledge of the Central European terrain and fauna (since hunting was typically practised side by side to agriculture to complement the farmers' diet). I1 would later have spread to Scandinavia from northern Germany.

Once could easily assume that this group should be associated with both the Nordid phenotype and Indo-European (specifically Germanic) language group but many people do not agree with this association. So what (proto-) language or (proto-) language group did ancient West European Hunter-Gatherers belong to?

[Dombra]

Nobody knows what they really spoke. All that is known is that it had a big impact on the proto-Germanic language

[Togarma]

I read some where, ''Odin tough scandinavians to write and read with runes''. Looks like they could speak some sort of language to understand Odin, but no alphabet. Some ancient runic forms writen in Gothland with aglunative structure. May be they spoke an aglunative language. Actualy the name of Odin is aglunative word. Od-dun (means fire and or wood).

[Dombra]

I read some where, ''Odin tough scandinavians to write and read with runes''. Looks like they could speak some sort of language to understand Odin, but no alphabet. Some ancient runic forms writen in Gothland with aglunative structure. May be they spoke an aglunative language. Actualy the name of Odin is aglunative word. Od-dun (means fire and or wood).

Agglunative theory is very interesting WHG language may have been a western dialect of the Eurasian family. Indo-Europeans were perhaps an exception to the rule as they lack that trait shared by their eastern relatives

[Peterski]

You forgot about I2 (which was actually more widespread than I1 back then) and C1 - which was also found among European hunters.

As for their languages:

There are no names for languages of Old European hunter-gatherers, and we will probably never learn much about them.

I would simply call them "Old European languages".

Certainly some loan words, placenames (toponyms), etc. present in languages spoken in Europe today, originate from them.

I suppose that there was not a single language, but that each clan or tribe or group spoke its own language - like in Australia:

http://historum.com/european-history...xpansions.html

More about languages spoken by Australian Aborigines (all of whom were of course hunter-gatherers or foragers):

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?i...iew=1up;seq=15



But this excerpt is actually not telling the whole story. Those Australian Aborigine tribes did exchange genes - mostly through stealing or trading of women. But despite exchange (often not peaceful) of women between clans, they still maintained their characteristic looks.

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BTW - hunters typically migrated over vast areas during their lifetimes. For example a study on famous Kennewick Man - who was buried near Kennewick in the State of Washington - proves that he was probably born close to the Pacific Coast. His diet suggests that he was eating sea marine mammals during most of his life, and he must have lived at the Pacific Ocean at that time. Yet he ded far away from the coast.

And anthropologically, Kennewick Man was similar to the Ainu people.

[Anglojew]

Nobody knows what they really spoke. All that is known is that it had a big impact on the proto-Germanic language

Thanks. Why is proto-IE ruled out?

[Anglojew]

Agglunative theory is very interesting WHG language may have been a western dialect of the Eurasian family. Indo-Europeans were perhaps an exception to the rule as they lack that trait shared by their eastern relatives

I agree.

[Anglojew]

You forgot about I2 (which was actually more widespread than I1 back then) and C1 - which was also found among European hunters.

As for their languages:

There are no names for languages of Old European hunter-gatherers, and we will probably never learn much about them.

I would simply call them "Old European languages".

Certainly some loan words, placenames (toponyms), etc. present in languages spoken in Europe today, originate from them.

I suppose that there was not a single language, but that each clan or tribe or group spoke its own language - like in Australia:

http://historum.com/european-history...xpansions.html

More about languages spoken by Australian Aborigines (all of whom were of course hunter-gatherers or foragers):

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?i...iew=1up;seq=15



But this excerpt is actually not telling the whole story. Those Australian Aborigine tribes did exchange genes - mostly through stealing or trading of women. But despite exchange (often not peaceful) of women between clans, they still maintained their characteristic looks.

=========================================

BTW - hunters typically migrated over vast areas during their lifetimes. For example a study on famous Kennewick Man - who was buried near Kennewick in the State of Washington - proves that he was probably born close to the Pacific Coast. His diet suggests that he was eating sea marine mammals during most of his life, and he must have lived at the Pacific Ocean at that time. Yet he ded far away from the coast.

And anthropologically, Kennewick Man was similar to the Ainu people.

Do you think it was a neolithic language related to Basque?

[Dombra]

Thanks. Why is proto-IE ruled out?

I think it sounds unlikely but I not completely disregard it. A proto-proto accent may have been spoken, or at the very least some related lines

[Anglojew]

I think it sounds unlikely but I not completely disregard it. A proto-proto accent may have been spoken, or at the very least some related lines

Yes, I think so too