Were The Elite/Founders Of Ancient Greece/Rome(Italy included) Really All Nordic?

[MagnusAurelius]

Before you read my thread, I also meant to include Ancient Greece on the poll so please assume it is also included.

The most comon Nordicist claim is that the great Civilizations of ancient Greece and Rome/Italy was because of a minority of Nordics who were the elite of these societies and their decline was because of a process of mixing and de-nordicization. But really, were the elite/founders of these societies really Nordics?

http://racialreality.altervista.org/romans.html On here it presents the Romans as being Alpine-Dinaric judging from the bottom statues.

Coon, an outdated and mostly debunked Anthropologist claims the Ancient Roman Patricians were Nordic or mixed Nordics. Totally false in my opinion. Here are some Patricians.





Just type "Roman Patrician Statues" on google images to see more.

The founder of the Roman Republic. Does anyone think he looks Nordic? Be honest. I think he looks like a pure AtlantoMed/Atlantid.






Judging from the Statues of important men/Emperors/Leaders in Ancient Greece and Rome, basically the elite rulers and best scholars/intellectuals of their society, none were Nordic at all. They were all Alpine-Dinaric-Mediteranean or a mix of these 3 types. Would you all agree? Here are some examples.










http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/ Racial Type of the Ancient Hellenes.


Nordicists also love to claim all Italian Renaissance figures were Nordic. As you may know, the Italian Renaissance is what brought Europe out of it's 700-800 years of Dark Ages which was brought on by mostly Nordic Germanic people with Feudalism and extreme stagnant hierarchy based societies/Duchys/Kingdoms.

On here they claim all these Italian and a few Spaniard men are actually Nordic or mixed with Nordic. The truth is, Germany itself has far more non-Nordic people than Southern Europe has Nordic people. Italy is 3% Nordic maximum and 5% Mixed Nordid/Noric. Spain is probably 5% Nordic and 5% Mixed Nordic/Noric. Germany on the other hand is at least 25% Non Nordid with 15% being Alpine and 5% being Dinaric. So how many Italian Renassiance figures are actually Nordic? Take a look at this.

http://marchofthetitans.com/earlson/hfk/reoehchap9b.htm How many people do you really think are pure Nordics/Mixed Nordics here?

Here are all the pictures this page uses. How many do you think here are actually Nordics? The Red circle are the ones who I think are pure Nordic. The Blue circle is a person who is mostly Nordic but mixed with another type. I put in purple what phenotype I think each man here is, when I say "Med" I mean some other Mediterranean racial type that is not AtlantoMed/Atlantid.



What do you all think?

[Petros Houhoulis]

The original IndoEuropeans were Nordic, but they were NOT RACIST. They allowed other people to be incorporated into their belief system - and eventually language almost as soon as they sprang out of Ukraine/South Russia. For more info read "The horse, the Wheel, the language" by David Anthony or pay a visit to my friend Maciamo at eupedia...

[MagnusAurelius]

The original IndoEuropeans were Nordic, but they were NOT RACIST. They allowed other people to be incorporated into their belief system - and eventually language almost as soon as they sprang out of Ukraine/South Russia. For more info read "The horse, the Wheel, the language" by David Anthony or pay a visit to my friend Maciamo at eupedia...

The "original indo europeans" come from several different groups of people, mainly, Celtic-Germanic-Italic-Greek-Slavic/other Eastern groups.

The only ones who were pure Nordics were the Germanics. The Celtics were 50% Nordic maximum with 20% being Mixed Nord/Noric and 30% Non Nordid. The Itallic people were not Nordid at all, they were all Alpine-Dinaric-Med or a mix of those. Just look at early Roman Art, none of them look Nordic at all and there are also few people depicted with light/brown hair, most are depicted with dark brown-black hair.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ge-west-Europe Genetics does not go along with Phenotype, 2 different phenotypes can be of the same Y-DNA haplogroup.

The natives of Europe when the Indo-Europeans came descended from middle eastern Neolithic farmers, they looked middle eastern and there were far more of them in Southern Europe than in Nothern/Western Europe.

[Empecinado]

Spanish Renaissence intellectuals:

Juan de Mariana:



Francisco de Vitoria:



Francisco Suárez



Martín de Azpilcueta:



Diego de Covarrubias:



Luis de Molina:



Cardenal Cisneros:



Blasco de Garay:



Francisco de Quevedo:



Felix Lope de Vega:



Góngora:



Tirso de Molina:



Juana Inés de la Cruz:

[Anglojew]

Yes. The indigenous neolithic people were Med types prior to the Nordid and Alpinid IE migration. Like always the Nordid's dominated the upper classes.

[Mustafa]

It's a pure Nordicist BS. Ancient civilizations of Southern Europe Near/Middle East were brown/med/olive. At that era, Nordic peoples were just savage nomads or cave dwellers. Ancient Nordics = Barbarian Gypsy.

[MagnusAurelius]

Yes. The indigenous neolithic people were Med types prior to the Nordid and Alpinid IE migration. Like always the Nordid's dominated the upper classes.

Not exactly, Nords never dominated the upper classes and that is obvious by judging the taxonomy of Ancient Roman/Greek busts. There were some well known Nordics/Mixed Nords in Renaissance Italy but there wasn't many.

[MagnusAurelius]

Spanish Renaissence intellectuals:

Juan de Mariana:



Francisco de Vitoria:



Francisco Suárez



Martín de Azpilcueta:



Diego de Covarrubias:



Luis de Molina:



Cardenal Cisneros:



Blasco de Garay:



Francisco de Quevedo:



Felix Lope de Vega:



Góngora:



Tirso de Molina:



Juana Inés de la Cruz:

None are Nordic, the only one who might be a Nordic mix is Felix Lope de Vega.

[Unome]

They're all white so it doesn't matter.

[XenophobicPrussian]

What are you defining Nordic? A Nordid skull? Who cares?

You can't tell eye colour/hair colour from a statue or a black and white picture(you can tell skull shape obviously but a non-Nordish skull with light eyes/hair has at some point mixed with a Nordish person because those features don't evolve in southern European/MENA climate, just like people with Nordic skulls but brown eyes are the result of mixing with Neolithic farmers).

However no, the elite founders of Ancient Greece/Rome were not Nordic/Nordish/light eyed/etc, there would've been a lot less atrocities if they were. They were brown eyed, black-dark brown haired Alpinids/Dinarids/pure Meds. However, at the same time, they weren't olive skinned borderline Middle-Eastern people like you see in Sicily or parts of Spain/Greece.

If we're only going by skulls, well, who gives a crap.

Also, on the Reinessance, da Vinci is classified as a Noric and was known to have light eyes/hair, same with Galileo. None of the people you circled are "pure Nordic/Nordid", all your circled ones had Dinarid noses. I mean, if you think none of this matters and only skull shape matters, or you think light eyes/hair evolves in warm, sunny climates, well, what can I say. Northern Italian regions have around, and over 50% light eyes and Italy overall has 30%, so it makes sense around or 50% of Reinasance people did too, whether you think those light eyes don't come from northern admixture, they sure don't look like the average "proud olive skinned, brown eyed SPQR Italian".

We can't and won't know for sure either way. We can only say people who started ancient civilizations were most likely dark-eyed/dark-haired.