Surnames in the Isles - Now & 1881

[hereward]

Below are some tables that I have compiled showing surname frequencies, percentages and comparative ratios for surnames that are common in the Isles. I started these tables around 12 years ago using telephone directories and other sources. Over the years these tables have been refined thanks to new sources, tools and the internet.
The data for my calculations have come from the following sources;
World Surname Profiler
http://www.publicprofiler.org/worldnames/

The General Record Office in Scotland
Top 100 surnames in Scotland 1999/2000/2001; this has been compiled by using over 335000 Birth/Death registrations from those three years
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files...es_tablea1.pdf
Top 100 surnames and top 300 surnames for Scotland compiled from 1901 census data
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files...es_tablea4.pdf
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files...es_tablea5.pdf
For reference purposes, data showing the top 100 in 1855/56/57 was also studied. Again this data was compiled using Birth & Death registration for those years.
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files...s_tablea3a.pdf

National Trust Surnames - http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/
British Surnames - http://www.britishsurnames.co.uk/

These last sites have been indispensable with regards to my calculations for the period of 1881.

National population figures;

England
Present - 50 000 000
1881 - 24 370 618

Scotland
Present - 5 194 000
1881 - 3 735 573

Wales
Present - 3 004 600
1881 - 1 604 821

Eire
Present - 4 459 300

Ulster
Present - 1 750 000

Cornwall
1881 - 335 714

Surnames In Wales.xls
The present table shows the top 70 surnames in Wales that are either Welsh in origin or historically peculiar to Wales but not of sole Welsh origin. It shows comparisons to G.B, it also shows ratios for England/Wales ONLY. The 1881 table again shows the top 70 Welsh Surnames plus surnames that are peculiar to Wales but not of sole Welsh Origin. It compares frequencies, percentages and ratios to England.

Surnames in Scotland.xls
These tables show the top 100 surnames in Scotland presently and for 1881 in comparison to those same surnames in England.

Surnames In England.xls
This table compares the top 250 surnames in England at present to the top 250 surnames in 1881.

Surnames In Eire.xls
This table shows the top 100 surnames in Eire at present in comparison to figures for England, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Top surnames in Cornwall 1881.xls
This table shows the top 40 Surnames for Cornwall in 1881. The figures for England are based on England minus Cornwall. The last column shows the Cornwall tally as a percentage of the entire English tally.

If there are any silly mistakes I apologise though the figures have been checked multiple times.

[hereward]

The Welsh figures took me by surprise, I knew the English and the Irish migrated to the industrial parts of Wales between 1880 through to the start of World War 1, but I find it hard to believe the scale of change in Wales. It seems not that far behind England in terms of change. In 1881, those 70 surnames accounted for 65.57% of the Welsh population, presently they only account for 37.33% of the population, which is a 43% reduction. Even more strange is the study carried out by John & Sheila Rowland’s in 'The Surnames of Wales'. They came up with findings to show that those same 70 surnames were even more omnipresent back in the early half of the 1800's. Their research consisted of recording every surname that was entered in marriage registers for all the parishes in Wales for the period 1813 - 1837. Their research suggested that the top 10 welsh surnames alone accounted for 55.85% of the Welsh around 1840; compare that with 44.06% in 1881 and 24.28% presently. That’s a 57% drop in 160 years, which I find hard to reconcile with history.
I don’t doubt the Rowland’s; I just doubt that marriage registers for that time give an accurate/reliable portrait of the population. The drop from 1881 afterwards I can believe, as there was an immigration boom to South Wales etc, mainly from the West midlands and South West of England, which is well documented. The proof of this can be further evidenced in the distribution of surnames.
In 1881, Smith was ranked at roughly the 44th most frequent surname in Wales, being held by around 0.25% (0.21% circa 1840, Rowland’s) of the population, currently, Smith is 12th, representing 0.85% of the population. Contrast Smith with Jones, which was held by 10.8% in 1881, but now has a representation of 5.74%. Every surname that is English/peculiar to the English has increased, whilst every Welsh/peculiar to the Welsh surname has decreased in that time period. It seems absurd that whilst Legions of Welsh travelled the road to England to prosper, thousands of English relocated to Wales in search of work!

Based on my calculations, around 15-18% of the ancestry of today’s Welsh comes from England, with around 8-9% coming from Ireland.
I came across an article online 2 weeks back, where a genealogist suggested that around 25% of modern Welsh ancestry came from England, thanks to the late 1800s. Cannot find it currently, if anyone knows of it, please post the link.
Lastly, I would like to comment on the movements of the Welsh. Of the populations of the Isles, the Welsh were least likely to leave the Isles, instead, they were more likely to migrate to others parts of the Kingdom. By 1881, I estimate that the Welsh input of England accounted for 5.9% of the population. This should not come as a surprise, as the Welsh started to arrive in England in large numbers in the first half of the 19th Century. They were already settling the Counties that fell between Gloucestershire and Lancashire by the late 1700's. The top destination for the Welsh was England, followed by Austrailia. Compared to the rest of the Islander's, the Welsh settling of America and Canada was negligible.

[hereward]

Scotland presents a challenge when studying the distribution of its surnames. Demographic change in Scotland varies with each region, more so than the rest of the Isles, with events in History leading to differing migration patterns. Highland Scots were far more likely to migrate out of the Isles than their Lowland counterparts. If the highland Scots were to be considered their own entity, then they, proportionately, were more likely to immigrate out of the Isles than any other population.
The top destination of Highland Scots appears to be Canada, Australia and New Zealand; this can be evidenced by looking at the dispersal of Highland surnames.
The Lowland Scots seem to be more likely to leave for England, which is evidenced by the strong representation of surnames in England hailing from the lowlands.
Scotland saw inward migration from the rest of the Isles at this time, just like all of the Nations of the Isles. Though with Scotland, the largest input came from Ireland, mainly via historic Ulster and Northern Leinster, ironically the very places previously settled by thousands of Scots in the 1600s and 1700s. According to my surname calculations, around 20-22% of the ancestry of today’s Scottish population hails from Ireland, though you will find other studies etc quoting higher figures.
Immigration from England and Wales during this period was not as high; it mostly took place during the latter stages of the 1800’s up and till the commencing of the First World War. English immigration to Scotland mainly came from the Northern Counties, though individual professionals arrived from the other parts. Welsh surnames entered Scotland indirectly via England, from Lancashire, Yorkshire etc; most of its bearers would have been only partially Welsh as opposed to fully Welsh directly from Wales. In 1901, according to the Scottish G.R.O, the surname Jones was ranked the 269th most common surname in Scotland, with it bearer’s constituting 0.075% of the total population. Contrast this with the present, where Jones is ranked
79th, accounting for 0.17% of the population. I estimate that presently, English and Welsh ancestry, due to the 1800's and 1900's, amounts to around 6% and 1% respectively of the Scottish population.
By 1881, I estimate that the Scottish input of English ancestry amounted to 5.98%, with the vast majority of that input having hailed from the Borders, Lothian, and Dumfriesshire and up the East coast to Aberdeenshire. In 1881 most of the carriers of these surnames in England would have been Scottish born, as opposed to being partially Scottish but born in England.

[Wulfhere]

What's wrong with British Isles? I thought you were talking about the Hebrides or something. Surely, of all places, this forum should not fall prey to political correctness and trendy reinventions of our language.

[Jack B]

What's wrong with British Isles? I thought you were talking about the Hebrides or something. Surely, of all places, this forum should not fall prey to political correctness and trendy reinventions of our language.

I never used to realize people were actually referring to the whole island of Ireland when I heard this term, seems kinda out of date considering the majority of it is a Republic. I can see how it confuses foreigners that think Ireland as a whole is part of the UK. You don't hear it being used here that's for sure.

[Wulfhere]

I never used to realize people were actually referring to the whole island of Ireland when I heard this term, seems kinda out of date considering the majority of it is a Republic. I can see how it confuses foreigners that think Ireland as a whole is part of the UK. You don't hear it being used here that's for sure.

It pre-dates the British state by thousands of years, being used by the Ancient Greeks.

[Osweo]

I never used to realize people were actually referring to the whole island of Ireland when I heard this term, seems kinda out of date considering the majority of it is a Republic. I can see how it confuses foreigners that think Ireland as a whole is part of the UK. You don't hear it being used here that's for sure.

Is there another term for the archipelago as a whole? 'The Isles' is one I've seen from the Europhile (Pope-ophile too for what that's worth! ) historian John Davies, but to me it's utterly absurd to try to promote such a contentless term, meaningless elsewhere in the world.

Republics, Kingdoms and what not are irrelevant, to the real need for a clear geographic term. And the archipelago IS a distinct entity of its own. And that goes for culture and ethnicity too. We aren't sealed from each other, just cos of political events a few generations ago. My own personal life sprawls across an Mean Muir, indeed.

***

Hereward, do you plan on going deeper? Might the 1841 results get examined, some time? 1881 is already rather 'after the event' in many ways viz. the Industrial Revolution. up

[Jack B]

It pre-dates the British state by thousands of years, being used by the Ancient Greeks.

So way out of date then, should I also refer to Ireland as Hibernia? I was explaining why people would have reasons other than political correctness for not using a term that appears out of date in modern times, not a gripe with the actual name itself, I hear it all the time on the internet and I couldn't care less but I wouldn't refer to Ireland as part of the "British Isles" down my local pub, not for politically correct reasons but because I would look like a complete retard for more obvious social and cultural reasons.

[Treffie]

In 1881, Smith was ranked at roughly the 44th most frequent surname in Wales, being held by around 0.25% (0.21% circa 1840, Rowland’s) of the population, currently, Smith is 12th, representing 0.85% of the population. Contrast Smith with Jones, which was held by 10.8% in 1881, but now has a representation of 5.74%. Every surname that is English/peculiar to the English has increased, whilst every Welsh/peculiar to the Welsh surname has decreased in that time period. It seems absurd that whilst Legions of Welsh travelled the road to England to prosper, thousands of English relocated to Wales in search of work!

My father's side (Smith) came to Wales from England to find work, via Yorkshire, Gloucestershire before finally setting for the Rhondda valleys. Wales, like many parts of industrial England and Scotland was in the forefront of the Industrial Revolution.

Based on my calculations, around 15-18% of the ancestry of today’s Welsh comes from England, with around 8-9% coming from Ireland.
I came across an article online 2 weeks back, where a genealogist suggested that around 25% of modern Welsh ancestry came from England, thanks to the late 1800s. Cannot find it currently, if anyone knows of it, please post the link.
Lastly, I would like to comment on the movements of the Welsh. Of the populations of the Isles, the Welsh were least likely to leave the Isles, instead, they were more likely to migrate to others parts of the Kingdom. By 1881, I estimate that the Welsh input of England accounted for 5.9% of the population. This should not come as a surprise, as the Welsh started to arrive in England in large numbers in the first half of the 19th Century. They were already settling the Counties that fell between Gloucestershire and Lancashire by the late 1700's. The top destination for the Welsh was England, followed by Austrailia. Compared to the rest of the Islander's, the Welsh settling of America and Canada was negligible.

Perhaps this is what you're looking for? I posted this some time last week.
It states that approximately 3.8% of the population of the states had some sort of Welsh ancestry.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17473

[hereward]

Thanks Ken, though it is not what I am after. I was pretty sure it was linked to the BBC or the National statistics office, though I still can't find it. Within a month, with the way I look for things, I will stumble upon it again, unintentionally, at that point I will post it, hopefully.
For those of you put out by the use of the 'Isles', it is only used for geographic purposes, nothing more.