Differences between Cornish people and Welsh people

[Grace O'Malley]

I know people can read the link I've posted but here is a difference between the Welsh and the rest of the population sampled in this study. "The most intriguing European contribution is that from Northern France, (EU17 red). This clearly post-dates the original settlers since it is entirely absent from the Welsh samples. It is, however, widespread elsewhere, even right through the north of England and Scotland to Orkney. It is also especially prevalent in Cornwall and Devon. These results suggest a previously not described substantial migration across the channel after the original post-ice-age settlers but before Roman times. DNA from these migrants spread across England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland, but had little, if any, impact on Wales."

That is very interesting.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Donncha O'Callaghan has an unusual look. He is a big fella. I think ex Irish Captain Brian O'Driscoll has a much more definitive Irish look.



Brian's look is far more common. Also the other man you picked for a Celtic look Gavin Henson has an unusual look and is often picked out on anthroboards for that reason. He is hardly a good example of an "Insular Celtic" look in my opinion.

Walsh actually came to Ireland with the Cambro-Normans. The Cambro-Normans came from Wales so the name makes sense. It has the same origin as Wallace and Wallis; I think it literally means Welsh or Breton from early Irish Breathnach. The Cambro-Normans brought a lot of Welsh, Cornish and Cumbrian men along with them. There was most probably some Bretons and Flemish in the mix as well.

Regarding the difference between Welsh and Cornish I think the Cornish have had a higher amount of English infusion. The PoBI has genetic results and the Welsh have two different clusters.

I descend from a Walsh. I wonder if it means I have distant Welsh ancestry?

[Neon Knight]

I thought this was interesting. "The three Welsh clusters are the most distinctive and completely lack contributions from North and North West Germany (EU3 pink) and Northern France (EU17 red). They have the largest contributions from West Germany (EU6 medium green) and North West France (EU14 dark green). This configuration strongly suggests that the Welsh may be closest to the original settlers who came to Britain after the end of the ice age. While there is no clear ‘Celtic Fringe’, as is so often assumed, there is evidence of ancient British DNA in common with other British populations, especially in Scotland and Northern Ireland, but less in Cornwall, or Devon, in contrast to what might have been expected."

Does anyone think that EU6 (West Germany) and EU14 (North West France) might be a Celtic signal? It is interesting that this appears to be an older cluster. It is most likely too old for Celtic per se but could be Bell Beaker which I believe the Celtic culture grew out of.

I also question their conclusion on the Celts as the people from the Celtic Fringe are the older inhabitants of the British Isles and are the most separated from each other geographically so they would have time to differentiate slightly. They have also had some slightly different contributions from Europe. There is also the Goidelic/Brittonic separation to consider.

The pie chart map shows things clearly:



Without being too pedantic, there are just two basic groups: Scots/English & Welsh.

To tackle Grace's question, I think #6 and #14 (and the Spanish) do represent the oldest DNA. Bell Beaker, possibly, but since they come from two distant places - NW France and West Germany, are they not more likely to represent post Ice Age migrations? The pattern of the dark blue NE French DNA is pretty mysterious but I think it's a better contender for Bell Beaker since it seems to have come from around Calais and spread north and west from there. If it's not BB then maybe it's a proto-Germanic group like the Belgae. Or maybe they brought the Brythonic language which mostly replaced the older Gaelic language in most of Britain. But the Welsh were Brythonic speaking so . . .

[Septentrion]

Welsh are much better singers and friendlier than Cornish folks. Over-all physically Welsh are similar to Cornish people as they are both predominantly Celtic kin, but Germanic paternal lineages make up 45% of the Cornish compared to slightly to 25% for the Welsh. This means that Cornish are "less Keltic" than the Welsh. The Welsh tend to have stronger and stockier body builds, slightly more brown/darker-haired, in other-words are somewhat slightly less blonde than the Cornish. However, at the same time there are more red-haired folk amongst the Welsh (10%-15%) than Cornish (3%), also more blue-eyed people in Wales (45%) than in Cornwall (35%) and the rest of South-West England, which I think it strange. I probably think the close affinity between red hair and blue eyes in Britain, is probably linked to an adaptation to the gloomy climate.