Differences between Cornish people and Welsh people

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

What are the differences?

Especially genetically but also culturally.

I know they are both the purest Britons, but do the Cornish have the same blood as the Welsh?

[de Burgh II]

The genetic disparity in the British Isles is quite minimal in its own respect. Despite the Germanic contribution in their gene pool they cluster relatively close to one another. They simply had their own umbrella terms. Anything within England and under are deemed Britons, Gaels craved their own piece in Southwest Scotland. Then you had the Picts that inhabited a good portion of Scotland. Over time the Gaels and the Picts merged into one that defined the Scottish kingdom in its own right. Collectively given the latinized name "Caledonia" to denote territory north of Hadrian's Wall by the Romans at the time.

[de Burgh II]

I would say the only difference is that the Cornish are more vocal about their national identity than the Welsh. Nonetheless, despite this slight difference their similar as both are considered "Celtic Nations" since their Celtic languages/ "Celtic tongue" outline some similarities in their own right.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I would say the only difference is that the Cornish are more vocal about their national identity than the Welsh. Nonetheless, despite this slight difference their similar as both are considered "Celtic Nations" since their Celtic languages/ "Celtic tongue" outline some similarities in their own right.

Here's a Welsh guy who I think looks very Celtic. I know many Irish who look pseudo- like this. He may be one of the purest Celts.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I think this Irish guy also looks very Celtic.

A fun fact Walsh which is a common name in Ireland (and among the Irish diaspora) is suppose to have a Welsh origin. It means 'Briton' or something like that and they gave the name to the Britons (Welsh) who came to Ireland with the Normans, I think.

[de Burgh II]

[Grace O'Malley]

I think this Irish guy also looks very Celtic.

A fun fact Walsh which is a common name in Ireland (and among the Irish diaspora) is suppose to have a Welsh origin. It means 'Briton' or something like that and they gave the name to the Britons (Welsh) who came to Ireland with the Normans, I think.

Donncha O'Callaghan has an unusual look. He is a big fella. I think ex Irish Captain Brian O'Driscoll has a much more definitive Irish look.



Brian's look is far more common. Also the other man you picked for a Celtic look Gavin Henson has an unusual look and is often picked out on anthroboards for that reason. He is hardly a good example of an "Insular Celtic" look in my opinion.

Walsh actually came to Ireland with the Cambro-Normans. The Cambro-Normans came from Wales so the name makes sense. It has the same origin as Wallace and Wallis; I think it literally means Welsh or Breton from early Irish Breathnach. The Cambro-Normans brought a lot of Welsh, Cornish and Cumbrian men along with them. There was most probably some Bretons and Flemish in the mix as well.

Regarding the difference between Welsh and Cornish I think the Cornish have had a higher amount of English infusion. The PoBI has genetic results and the Welsh have two different clusters.

[Grace O'Malley]

Maps from PoBI.



Here's a summary of the PoBI study.

"When separating out the clusters, based on their genetic variance, the most separate clusters were (in order) the Orkneys, the Welsh, North Wales from South Wales and then the Scots/Northern English/Northern Irish from the Southern English and next the Cornish."

https://learnalittleeveryday.wordpre...netic-summary/

Lots of information in this.

"The most different of all the clusters from the rest of the UK are those found in Orkney, as already mentioned, which clearly corresponds to the existence of a Norse Viking Earldom in Orkney from 875 to 1472. The next level of separation shows that Wales forms a distinct genetic group, followed by a further division between north and south Wales. This division corresponds well with the ancient kingdoms of Gwynedd (independent from the end of the Roman period to the13th century) in the north and Dyfed in the south. Subsequently, the north of England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland collectively separate from southern England. Then, at the next level, Cornwall forms a separate cluster quite distinct from Devon, followed by Scotland and Northern Ireland separating from northern England.

The split in the Northern Ireland group, one with the Scottish highlands and the other with the lowlands, suggests association with the people of Dalriada and with the Picts, respectively, a separation of clans that existed around 600 AD. The split in south Wales (pink squares and yellow inverted triangles) is suggestive of “Little England beyond Wales”, as will be discussed later. Particularly striking is the distribution of the large cluster of people (red squares) that covers most of eastern, central and southern England and extends up the east coast. This cluster contains almost half the individuals analysed (1006)."

http://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/nl6.pdf

[Grace O'Malley]

I thought this was interesting. "The three Welsh clusters are the most distinctive and completely lack contributions from North and North West Germany (EU3 pink) and Northern France (EU17 red). They have the largest contributions from West Germany (EU6 medium green) and North West France (EU14 dark green). This configuration strongly suggests that the Welsh may be closest to the original settlers who came to Britain after the end of the ice age. While there is no clear ‘Celtic Fringe’, as is so often assumed, there is evidence of ancient British DNA in common with other British populations, especially in Scotland and Northern Ireland, but less in Cornwall, or Devon, in contrast to what might have been expected."

Does anyone think that EU6 (West Germany) and EU14 (North West France) might be a Celtic signal? It is interesting that this appears to be an older cluster. It is most likely too old for Celtic per se but could be Bell Beaker which I believe the Celtic culture grew out of.

I also question their conclusion on the Celts as the people from the Celtic Fringe are the older inhabitants of the British Isles and are the most separated from each other geographically so they would have time to differentiate slightly. They have also had some slightly different contributions from Europe. There is also the Goidelic/Brittonic separation to consider.

[Graham]

Wales was annexed by England in the 13th century, lost it's Celtic Kingdoms & turned into a Principality of England. It still kept it's separate identity .


Whereas Cornwall was in England during Anglo Saxon times. Cornwall's culture was not as anglicised as much as the rest of England being on the periphery.

The Cornish are more English than the Welsh, having been influenced earlier.