What is Central Europe? Does it really exist?

[Rugevit]

Lithuanian expansion in Russia in the 14th century was only possible because, the Golden Horde weakened and fell into internal conflicts, chipped Ruthenian principalities were too weak to stand up to Lithuania and Moscow was still under the yoke of Mongol and scarcely in the 2nd half of the 15th century begin to compete with Lithuania about power over Rusia. Therefore, Lithuania quite easily conquered large areas of present-day Belarus, Ukraine and Russia. But the attempt crackdown on with the Golden Horde in 1399 marked the end of a terrible defeat of Lithuanians at Vorskla. Lithuanians ended the dream of hegemony in Eastern Europe.
In the second half of the 15th century to the "gathering of the Russian lands" with a vengeance joined Moscow. Lithuanians suffered in this war shameful defeat, lost to Moscow about 30 percent owned Russian lands. Only then help Poland saved Lithuania from completely absorption by Moscow. Polish troops played a major role in the defeat Moscow's troops at Orsha in 1514 y.
This was the Lithuanian "power", the "poweful" army.
The truth is that without the help of Poles already in the 15th or 16th century Lithuanians would share the fate of their Prussian, Latvian cousins conquered by the Teutonic Knights. Germany and Moscow would share the country very quickly. Lithuanian princes knew about it and readily agreed to it to the Grand Duke of Lithuania was dependent on the Polish king.

Most historic facts are wrong again.

Golden Hurde was far from being weak at the time Lithuania was expanding 1250-1350 . Many Ruthenian principalities were welcoming Lithuanian Dukes fearing to fall under Tatars rule. Lithuanian were pagan, but they were familiar neighbours for many eastern Slavs. Moreover, Ruthenian principalities were not as weak as you may think. It just the Hurde was strong and most states were falling under the rule of Hurde and Mongols at the time. There was a defeat at Voskla from the Tatars, but Lithuania continue ruling much of the territories in what is present day Ukraine. In the Orsha battle Polish troops were used as a back-up who were standing behind the Berezina river mostly. Moscow principality became strong in mid 16th century capturing Novgorod republic and many principalities around Moscow making advances into eastern territories of Lithuania. That was the reason for Lublin's negotiations in 1569. Poland's interest in this union was to get some land in what is present day Ukraine. Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth stopped Moscow expansion temporarily loosing some territories in left bank of Dnieper, but eventually Russia took everything including Poland in 1795.

Lithuanians did not need Polish help to defend themselves against Teutonic Order. Kestustis was successfully negotiating with Teutonic order. Jogailo wanted wealth and King's title offered by the Poles, while Poland wanted his powerful army on Poland's side against Teutonic order. Both cousins Jogailo and Vytautas led Polish and Lithuanian (and Ruthenian) forces against Teutonic Order at Grunwald. So open a book and read about reasons for offering Jagailo King's title. Also, Samogitians and other Baltic tribes that settled on territories of present day Latvia did not face the fate of the Prussians despite being ruled by the Order. Baltic speaking Lithuanians were never under Teutonic rule. They had quite a powerful army controlling vast territories fighting Tatars, Muscovites, Poles and Teutonic order on some occasions.

[Sandman]

Most historic facts are wrong again.

Golden Hurde was far from being weak at the time Lithuania was expanding 1250-1350 . Many Ruthenian principalities were welcoming Lithuanian Dukes fearing to fall under Tatars rule. Lithuanian were pagan, but they were familiar neighbours for many eastern Slavs. Moreover, Ruthenian principalities were not as weak as you may think. It just the Hurde was strong and most states were falling under the rule of Hurde and Mongols at the time. There was a defeat at Voskla from the Tatars, but Lithuania continue ruling much of the territories in what is present day Ukraine. In the Orsha battle Polish troops were used as a back-up who were standing behind the Berezina river mostly. Moscow principality became strong in mid 16th century capturing Novgorod republic and many principalities around Moscow making advances into eastern territories of Lithuania. That was the reason for Lublin's negotiations in 1569. Poland's interest in this union was to get some land in what is present day Ukraine. Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth stopped Moscow expansion temporarily loosing some territories in left bank of Dnieper, but eventually Russia took everything including Poland in 1795.

Lithuanians did not need Polish help to defend themselves against Teutonic Order. Kestustis was successfully negotiating with Teutonic order. Jagailo wanted wealth and King's title offered by the Poles, while Poland wanted his powerful army on Poland's side against Teutonic order. Both cousins Jogailo and Vytautas led Polish and Lithuanian (and Ruthenian) forces against Teutonic Order at Grunwald. So open a book and read about reasons for offering Jagailo King's title. Also, Samogitians and other Baltic tribes that settled on territories of present day Latvia did not face the fate of the Prussians despite being ruled by the Order. Baltic speaking Lithuanians were never under Teutonic rule. They had quite a powerful army controlling vast territories fighting Tatars, Muscovites, Poles and Teutonic order on some occasions.

The period of greatest expansion of Lithuania to the Russian lands falls just on half of the 14th century, when the Golden Horde was plunged into internal wars.
Polish troops were the main force that broke the power of the Teutonic Order at Grunwald (1410). Lithuanians at some point moved away from the battlefield, although they later returned.
Poles also have contributed most to the defeat of Moscow in the battle of Orsha (1514). Gunfire and artillery Polish infantry caused huge losses in the ranks of Moscow and aroused panic in their ranks.
In the wars with Moscow in the years 1494-1522 Lithuania had lost 30 percent of its territory. Defeat in this war forced the Lithuanians to strengthen the Union with Poland.

[Rugevit]

The period of greatest expansion of Lithuania to the Russian lands falls just on half of the 14th century, when the Golden Horde was plunged into internal wars.
Polish troops were the main force that broke the power of the Teutonic Order at Grunwald (1410). Lithuanians at some point moved away from the battlefield, although they later returned.
Poles also have contributed most to the defeat of Moscow in the battle of Orsha (1514). Gunfire and artillery Polish infantry caused huge losses in the ranks of Moscow and aroused panic in their ranks.
In the wars with Moscow in the years 1494-1522 Lithuania had lost 30 percent of its territory. Defeat in this war forced the Lithuanians to strengthen the Union with Poland.

Territories of present day Belarus became part of Lithuania between 1250-1310 mostly peacefully or through dynasty marriages at the time Tatars were strong. The retreat tactic deployed by Vytautas at Grunwald was possibly copied from the Tatars which he fought. The retreat tactic was common in eastern Europe at the time. It has been shown that Vytautas used the retreat tactics in other battles prior to Grunwal. The tactic was such that an some military units retreat drawing the enemies out of their reinforced positions and then the military strikes once the enemy is out of the position. If Vytayutas wanted to run away from the battle -field he would not have returned. This is common consensus among Europeans. In the Orsha battle Polish army was mostly providing a back-up standing behind Berezina river . The battle of Orsha was lead by Great Hetman of Lithuania Konstanty Ostrogski who was Ruthenian by descent. Open a book and read who was the main force in the Orsha battle.

Moscow principality was growing stronger in the 16th century, so Polish-Lithuanian union was formed to resist Moscow expansion. But the union did not last long . First, Ukrainian territories were revolting against Poles and a century later after the revolt most territories of PLC fell under the rule of Russia.

[Sandman]

Territories of present day Belarus became part of Lithuania between 1250-1310 mostly peacefully or through dynasty marriages at the time Tatars were strong. The retreat tactic deployed by Vytautas at Grunwald was possibly copied from the Tatars which he fought. The retreat tactic was common in eastern Europe at the time. It has been shown that Vytautas used the retreat tactics in other battles prior to Grunwal. The tactic was such that an some military units retreat drawing the enemies out of their reinforced positions and then the military strikes once the enemy is out of the position. If Vytayutas wanted to run away from the battle -field he would not have returned. This is common consensus among Europeans. In the Orsha battle Polish army was mostly providing a back-up standing behind Berezina river . The battle of Orsha was lead by Great Hetman of Lithuania Konstanty Ostrogski who was Ruthenian by descent. Open a book and read who was the main force in the Orsha battle.

Moscow principality was growing stronger in the 16th century, so Polish-Lithuanian union was formed to resist Moscow expansion. But the union did not last long . First, Ukrainian territories were revolting against Poles and a century later after the revolt most territories of PLC fell under the rule of Russia.

A few sentences in order to correct your erroneous theses.
In the battle of Grunwald Lithuanians they returned to the battlefield when the battle was practically settled by the Polish army.
The tactics of retreat was then in the 2nd World War used by the German army. Germany called it "a retreat for a pre-planned positions".
The biggest territorial development of Lithuania was during the reign of the dukes Algirdas and Kestutis in the years 1341-1377.
Battle of Orsha won the Polish cannon and muskets, which completely surprised the Russians who did not have such weapons.
Polish-Lithuanian Union in 1569 y. was mostly driven by the desire to expand Polish elements on Ukrainian lands.

[Rugevit]

A few sentences in order to correct your erroneous theses.
In the battle of Grunwald Lithuanians they returned to the battlefield when the battle was practically settled by the Polish army.
The tactics of retreat was then in the 2nd World War used by the German army. Germany called it "a retreat for a pre-planned positions".
The biggest territorial development of Lithuania was during the reign of the dukes Algirdas and Kestutis in the years 1341-1377.
Battle of Orsha won the Polish cannon and muskets, which completely surprised the Russians who did not have such weapons.
Polish-Lithuanian Union in 1569 y. was mostly driven by the desire to expand Polish elements on Ukrainian lands.

You made a lot non-sensual comments already. Here's some information on retreat tactics utlised at Grunwald. The tactic was common in eastern Europe. There was a tactical retreat and the forces returned to continue engaging in the battle once the enemy was drawn out of the position.

The Battle of Grunwald:

As the day progressed, the Polish-Lithuanian army stayed in place and made no indication that they intended to attack. Increasingly impatient, Jungingen dispatched messengers to chide the allied leaders and provoke them to action. Arriving in Jagiello's camp, they presented the two leaders with swords to aid them in the battle. Angered and insulted, Jagiello and Vytautus moved to open the battle. Pushing forward on the right, the Lithuanian cavalry began an attack on the Teutonic forces. Though initially successful, they were soon pushed back by the Knights' heavy cavalry.

The retreat soon became a rout with the Lithuanians fleeing the field. This may have been the result of a misinterpreted false retreat conducted by the Tartars. A favored tactic, the sight of them intentionally retreating may have led to panic among the other ranks. Regardless, the Teutonic heavy cavalry broke formation and began a pursuit. As the battle flowed on the right, the remaining Polish-Lithuanian forces engaged the Teutonic Knights. Focusing their assault on the Polish right, the Knights began to gain the upper hand and forced Jagiello to commit his reserves to the fight.

As the battle raged, Jagiello's headquarters was attacked and he was nearly killed. The battle began to turn in Jagiello and Vytautus' favor when the Lithuanian troops that had fled rallied and began to return to the field. Striking the Knights in the flank and rear, they began to drive them back. In the course of the fighting, Jungingen was killed. Retreating, some of the Knights attempted a final defense at their camp near Grunwald. Despite using wagons as barricades, they were soon overrun and either killed or forced to surrender. Defeated, the surviving Knights fled the field.

The territories of present day Belarus that formed the core of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania together with what is much of present day Lithuania joined the Grand Duchy of Lithuania between 1250-1310 right after Mindaugas coronation. Territories of present day Ukraine and some regions of western Russia joined the Grand Duchy during Algirdas reign.

Open a book and read how the Orsha battle was won. Most Polish troops remained as back-up behind the Berezina river. People win the wars, not the cannons.

[Ctwentysevenj]

Central Europe




Detailed map showing the major geographical and administrative regions of the area that is called Central Europe, including its clountries, capitals, major cities, and physical features. It stretches fomr the Baltic Sea to the shores of the Adriatic Sea, from the North Sea to the Southern edges of the Carpathians, from the Mountain ranges of the vast plains of Eastern Europe.
Click on above map to view higher resolution image
Central Europe is the region of Europe that lies between Northern and Southern Europe. It basically consists of two groups of countries: the Alpine countries of Europe (Austria, Slovenia, Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein), and the so called Visegrad Group countries (Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary and Slovakia). Another grouping system divides the region into Western Central Europe, and Eastern Central Europe, which basically gives the same grouping, with the exception of Slovenia.
Some define the Central European region playfully as the one that is referred to as Eastern Europe in Western Europe, and it is called as Western Europe in astern Europe.
The region is bordered by the Baltic Sea on the North, the Rhine river on the west, the East European Plains on the East, and the Alps-Danube line on the South.
There are numerous historically famous cities in the region, the most notable of those being:
Vienna, the former capital of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy
Berlin, the capital of Germany, the biggest metropolis in the region since the destruction of the Berlin Wall
Budapest, the Pearl of the Danube, famous spa resort in Hungary
Geneva, center of French-Switzerland, the city of many international organization (Red Cross, UN)
Kraków, former capital of the fromer Polish Kingdom
Munich, capital of Bavaria, famous for the Oktoberfest
Prague, capital of the Czech, its inner city is a World Heritage site
Zürich, economic center of Switzerland, and one of the economic centers of Europe

[sean]

‘Central Europe’ is just what Eastern Europeans call themselves today because they’re embarrassed to be associated with Eastern European traits like communism and alcoholism.

There is no such thing as a Central Europe in a cultural sense, that horse died with Germany in WW1. Habsburgs disseminated a Southern German-influenced culture across the region, which is very apparent in the architecture. The whole region was agrarian. They also benefited from already having their industry built by Habsburgs, since they have been a powerhouse in Europe for a long time.

[RenaRyuguu]

‘Central Europe’ is just what Eastern Europeans call themselves today because they’re embarrassed to be associated with Eastern European traits like communism and alcoholism.

There is no such thing as a Central Europe in a cultural sense, that horse died with Germany in WW1. Habsburgs disseminated a Southern German-influenced culture across the region, which is very apparent in the architecture. The whole region was agrarian. They also benefited from already having their industry built by Habsburgs, since they have been a powerhouse in Europe for a long time.