Alpines and Lapps

[Metanthropos]

Why do Alpines belong to the same cathegory with Lapps according to Eickstedt? Is it justified to say so? And are western Alpines really less progressive than eastern ones?

[Saruman]

Why do Alpines belong to the same cathegory with Lapps according to Eickstedt? Is it justified to say so?

That's his opinion, not necessarily true, he was wrong on his "Fenno-nordids" too, probably not being so well informed about eastern types.

And are western Alpines really less progressive than eastern ones?

Possibly, as EastAlpinids are influenced/blends with Baltids. And standard Baltid is more progressive than Westalpinid (baltisation probably being less negative than alpinisation) though East-Baltid is not as they head in Lappoid direction.

[Tomasz]

Why do Alpines belong to the same cathegory with Lapps according to Eickstedt? Is it justified to say so? And are western Alpines really less progressive than eastern ones?

I will not answer your question right now, but I'd like to note that Polish school of anthropology had similiar approach. "Alpines" and "Lapps" were considered to be "Lapponoid" race.

That's his opinion, not necessarily true, he was wrong on his "Fenno-nordids" too, probably not being so well informed about eastern types.

Could you explain, what you mean? "Fenno-Nordic" isn't viable racial category? I thought it's just East-Nordid.

[Saruman]

Could you explain, what you mean? "Fenno-Nordic" isn't viable racial category? I thought it's just East-Nordid.

Yes, in Agrippa's terminology. But Von Eickstedt's example of "Fenno-Nordid" doesn't look like a typical East-Nordid.

[Tomasz]

Yes, in Agrippa's terminology. But Von Eickstedt's example of "Fenno-Nordid" doesn't look like a typical East-Nordid.

I agree, this photo example don't really look like person, who we would classify as typical East-Nordid.

Also, von Eickstedt seemed to describe "Fenno-Nordic" as more stocky in build than other "Nordic" types. Is it true that East-Nordids are more endomorphic? On SNPA site for East-Nordid, people from photo examples are slender.

I was once classified as East-Nordid but I don't know, how accurate it was. And I am certainly not stocky in build, quite opposite - pretty damn skinny.

[Saruman]

I agree, this photo example don't really look like person, who we would classify as typical East-Nordid.

Also, von Eickstedt seemed to describe "Fenno-Nordic" as more stocky in build than other "Nordic" types. Is it true that East-Nordids are more endomorphic? On SNPA site for East-Nordid, people from photo examples are slender.

I was once classified as East-Nordid but I don't know, how accurate it was. And I am certainly not stocky in build, quite opposite - pretty damn skinny.

East-Nordid's should be slender, maybe very slightly more tending towards stocky build, since they can have CM influence, but slender as a rule.

[Agrippa]

What v. Eickstedt described as Fenno-Nordid being something like an unclear thing, because at one time it is close to what one would consider Eastnordid otherwise, next time it's more like a Baltid or even slightly Mongoloid influenced variant.

So I don't use that term for this reasons, but prefer that of Bertil Lundman, which example of Ostnordid/Eastnordid is like this and primarily higher headed than Skandonordid:


You can read B. Lundman, at least in excerpts, here:
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/index2.htm

V. Eickstedt was not particularly well informed about the East when he wrote is major work and it is a pity he didn't made at least a scientific journey like he did in the Near East, which really changed his classification system, since he was a keen observer - Iranid, Anadolid etc. being the result of this journey and a more detailed and differentiated view on the region.

As for the Lappids, well, the Lappids have traits in common with Alpinids and one of the problems of v. Eickstedts view on things was, that he had the idea of all racial types being rather older and adaptations to a specific habitat, he considered the way of life and habitat in detail, but not enough, so he still had the idea of an "original Alpinid" race so to say, spreading throughout the regions from their areas of retreat, which is partly but not fully true, since in fact, all that Alpinoids present in Europid regions have oftentimes little to no connections, but are rather the result of a similar process = Alpinisation.

And the Lappids have different variants, of which some are really quite Alpinoid, even many of the Nordid-Lappid mixed ones are pretty much Alpinoids, yet there is a core group with clear Mongoliform to Mongoloid traits which can't be considered Alpinoid, yet Alpinid proper, by any stretch of imagination.

Eastalpinids are generally slightly more progressive on average, seem to have, in my opinion, an even stronger connection with Dinarid and Mediterranid, further East to Baltid, than typical Westalpinids.

F.e. they have more often closer set eyes, more progressive facial traits, a more gracile-leptomorphic, less reduced-short ranged body etc.