Why Belarusians don't speak their own language?

[Methmatician]

The topic is about Belorussian language in Belarus. It is in the same conditions as Samogitian language in Samogitia (actualy part of Lithuania). Why nobody concerns about Lithuanization of Samogitians? Why nobody finds unnatural that Samogitians speak Lithuanian?

What Lithuanisation?

[Not a Cop]

I didnt talk about your sentence of East-Slavic cultural-dialectual continium, I was talking about Belarussians were identified as Russians in the 19th century. Which is not true according to your Russian official data of the census in 1897. Now, what is your excuse? False data? American intervention? People forced to not state themselves as Russian?

Excuse, lol i'm not incel enough for that, i just gave you examples of people identifying themself as Russians (in broader sense if you want). There will always be separatists, especially in provinces like Padania and similar stuff, doesn't change the main course.

[Not a Cop]

Belarusians and Ukrainians do not consider Russians a brotherly nation. Russians are at war with Ukrainains having Russian volunteers in eastern Ukraine. Brotherly relations exist in the mind of brain-washed individuals .

Brotherly relations do not exist in minds of brain-washed individuals.

[glass]

To those who wants to argue here? Why do you bother? Proper discussion with butthurted clowns is impossible.
Simargl and Chorba types are described pretty well (in russian though)
Simargl
Chorba
Their common traits

Полная неспособность в восприятие чужого мнения, хоть немного отличного от собственного, не говоря уже о полемике и аргументации; в лучших традициях. Мнение, хоть немного отличающееся от Правильного™, будет закидано какашками с особым цинизмом, даже в тех случаях, когда человек в общем-то за то же самое. При малейшей критике сабжа начинает кидаться говном в критикующего. Постоянно использует слова «запутыш», «едрос», «нашист», а также производные от них. Несогласные с ним автоматически попадают в список жуликов и воров. И это при том, что нехилая часть оппозиционеров выступает какбе за право каждого на своё мнение.

Всем своим видом показывает, что является носителем сакральной правды об окружающей действительности и знает нечто такое, чего, правда, не говорит. Заявляет, что оппонент черпает информацию исключительно из новостей Первого канала, даже несмотря на чёткую логическую связь в его рассуждениях, в противовес оппозиционерскому визгу и сумбуру.

Непроходимая тупость и отсутствие рациональной аргументации, как и у всех фимозных.

«Это не мы далеки от народа, это народ далёк от нас»

PS: Individuals of such types do not repsent point of view of people. Actually majority view them as butthurted clowns and idiots.

[Sarmatian]

You are an ignorant about a history. Poland was for 123 years under partitions of Russia, Prussia and Austria and we kept our language intact.

Are you even serious? Are you really comparing Poland - one of the oldest fully developed ethnicities in Europe (even Germans as unified nation are few centuries younger) with centuries of existing as a sovereign state and at some point the most developed country in Europe - to Belarus? You kept your language because your self-identity is one of the strongest in Europe and just over 100 years of living under someone's rule won't take that away. I'm sincerely amazed I have to explain such simple thing.

[Sarmatian]

A single Russian nation concept was the invention during Tsarist rule picked up by the Soviets as a mean of Russification. That's the reason for 3 new ethnicities invention after partition of Polish-Lithanian commonwealth - in order to russify people of Ukraine and Belarus.

Before 1795 Belarus and much of Ukraine was in Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. Before Lublin Union Belarus was in GDL, since 1250. Even before that time different Slavic tribes lived on territories of modern day Belarus, Ukraine and Russia in ancient times. Ethnogenesis of 3 eastern Slavic nations occurred in different states under different circumstances.

The amount of fact twisting and lies in this bit is amazing. Why do you start describing history of Belarus from 1250? If you're going back that far why don't you go further? Why don't you explain what entity existed there before the date? Must be because existence of Principality of Polotsk as a part of Kievan Rus under Rurikids doesn't really fit the picture you're trying to present here. In your story the culture and statehood came to these lands only once they were taken by PLC. Cool story but I have to disappoint you - Rus principality covered most of the territory of modern Belarus since early Rurikids and served as basis for strong cultural affinity with the rest of Rus states which later transformed into idea of tri-united Russian nation. The formation of these nations indeed occurred in different states and under different circumstances but initially it was one cultural entity.

Ancestors of Belarus fought so many wars against ancestors of Russians never considering Muscovites as brotherly peoples.

Sure some Belarusians where fighting against Russians. So as some Cossacks, Tatars, Bashkirs and many others. What does that suppose to prove? As with any contested territory placed between two major competing powers local population produced sympathizers for both of them. Some were allied with PLC, some with Russia, for most their political affiliation was based strictly on their chances to retain local positions of power and to accumulate personal wealth. You know how it is: 'smart' guys are always pragmatic, in their 'universe' ideology is for cannon fodder.

There was no forced conversion of common folks into Greek Catholicism. There was an agreement in Brest and Greek Catholicism was supported and introduced by nobility over common folks. For common folks it did not mean a thing ас similar traditions were observed.

You should read about 'holy deeds' of some local 'saints', how they butchered whole villages for refusal to convert from Orthodoxy to Catholicism.

Kalinovski revolutionary was Belarusian, as so many other revolutionaries. They were Poles or Lithuanians as part of the Russian propaganda, who blamed Catholic Poles and Lithuanians. In addition, Belarusian ancestors together with ancestors of Poles fought the Russians during Napoleonic war followed by 2 revolutions.

As I described before there were Polish agents and Russian agents, just business as usual and nothing new. I take it you're rather anti-Russian agent which would explain your one-sided views.

If Belarusians were not against the Russians, their schools and books would not have been banned by Tsarist authority.

Empire has done what needed to be done in order to ensure integrity of the empire. When reading passages like yours I sometimes think Russian empire was too soft in dealings with all this ethnic discontent. They should've adopted 'civilized' British methods, than today we would've nobody to complain about 'evil imperialist Russians'.

The 'development' as you describe in the context of linguistics does not make much sense. What do you mean by un-developed Ukrainian language 100 years ago? Literary language was not codified?

Try to write a physics article in Belarusian. That would be a funny read. Sure you can develop new vocabulary for it but why bother if since its very appearance the entire science in Belarus was running in well developed Russian? It's like inventing a bike all over again.

All in all as an independent entity Belarus only exists for just over 20 years. For their entire previous existence they were part of Russia or PLC and being positioned in the middle of that contest is what shaped their identity. Naturally being under someone's higher authority they were unable to develop vocabulary needed in state functioning or in science since they just used the one given by that authority. Today they can go any way they want and it seems they choose the easiest one.

[Arhat]

To those who wants to argue here? Why do you bother? Proper discussion with butthurted clowns is impossible.
Simargl and Chorba types are described pretty well (in russian though)
Simargl
Chorba
Their common traits





PS: Individuals of such types do not repsent point of view of people. Actually majority view them as butthurted clowns and idiots.

And you wonder why Russia has no friends except of some confused Stalinists and Neo-Nazis? Insulting other people or using racist slurs is just proving that you are desperate. It is just funny to watch when some brainwashed people want to tell a Belarusian what Belarusians feel and what is their opinion about Russia Reading all this posts of confused and brainwashed people here convinced me that Russians are doing everything to piss off as much as nations/peoples as they can. Russia is now basically doing everything it can to destroy itself and all this bla bla about superior russian tradition, gay Europeans, Reptiloids and Russkiy Mir is just getting more and more pathetic and annoying even for someone who was hardcore pro-russian some years ago.

[blizzard]

It is just funny to watch when some brainwashed people want to tell a Belarusian what Belarusians feel and what is their opinion about Russia

Do you mean Simargl as 'Belarussian'? I wonder if he is actually Lithuanian or half Lithuanian.

As for brainwashing...
Look at 'official' (as it is claimed) map of languages in Belarus - according to map roughly 40% speak Belarusian, some regions even 80% speaking Belarusian.

Compare with some of comments left by Belarusians in article Language map of Belarus:

Но на самом деле, уровень белоруссизации - хорошо, если 5%. А трасянка - да, это таки наше все.

- "level of Belarussian is hardly 5% maximum..."

Имхо, очень сомнительная карта. Насколько я понимаю, в современной Белоруссии белорусскоязычных (тех, для кого этот язык родной и кто его использует как основной в общении) - менее 10%, на это сетовали даже мои знакомые белорусы, некоторые из них принципиально белорусскоязычные (типа литераторы, интеллигенция) во время моего посещения Минска в 2005 году, не думаю, что ситуация за 4 года могла радикально поменяться. Поэтому, откуда взяться районам с 90% белорусскоязычных, ума не приложу. Мне кажется, что если перепись проходила недавно, то такие данные дали, чтобы противопоставить их российскому влиянию, в пику России.

- "...in modern Belarus Belarussian is speaked by less than 10%..."
- "...where did they get districts with 90% Belarussian speakers, i have no understanding. It seems to me that if census was made recently, this data was presented to be against russian influence, to 'kick' Russia"

If you will be able to translate other comments you will understand who is really brainwashed.

[Rugevit]

The amount of fact twisting and lies in this bit is amazing. Why do you start describing history of Belarus from 1250? If you're going back that far why don't you go further? Why don't you explain what entity existed there before the date? Must be because existence of Principality of Polotsk as a part of Kievan Rus under Rurikids doesn't really fit the picture you're trying to present here. In your story the culture and statehood came to these lands only once they were taken by PLC. Cool story but I have to disappoint you - Rus principality covered most of the territory of modern Belarus since early Rurikids and served as basis for strong cultural affinity with the rest of Rus states which later transformed into idea of tri-united Russian nation. The formation of these nations indeed occurred in different states and under different circumstances but initially it was one cultural entity.

There are no twisting of the facts. There are only facts.

Between the time Oleg captured Kiev and disintegration of Rus at the times of Yaroslav the wise was just little over 200 years. During those times there was no unified ethnicity in Kievan Rus. There were different Slavic tribes living in Rus speaking different dialects described by Nestor . The ethnogenesis of Belarusians , Russians and Ukrainians occurred later in different states. PLC did not take over anything. There was an agreement in Lubin in 1569 between Lithuania (90% Slavic at the time) and Poland to resist Muscovites ravaging eastern provinces of the GDL . That's how PLC was formed. There is no such thing as unified Russian nation. Ancestors of Belarusians and Ukrainians are described as Ruthenians, because they were different from the Russians living in another state.

Sure some Belarusians where fighting against Russians. So as some Cossacks, Tatars, Bashkirs and many others. What does that suppose to prove? As with any contested territory placed between two major competing powers local population produced sympathizers for both of them. Some were allied with PLC, some with Russia, for most their political affiliation was based strictly on their chances to retain local positions of power and to accumulate personal wealth. You know how it is: 'smart' guys are always pragmatic, in their 'universe' ideology is for cannon fodder.

Not some. Lots of Belarusians' ancestors fought wars against ancestors of Russians. See the number of wars between Lithuania and Muscow principality/Russia . Belarusians were well represented in the Lithuanian army. Ancestors of Belarusians also fought wars during Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Napoleonic wars against the Russians. Not to mention two upraisings against Tsarist rule in the 19th century. Belarusians never allied with the Russians except possibly during WWII. Russian historians call the numerous wars between Lithuania and Moscow principality as a great stand-off in eastern Europe during which Slavs were killing other Slavs.

You should read about 'holy deeds' of some local 'saints', how they butchered whole villages for refusal to convert from Orthodoxy to Catholicism.

Nonsense. Most Belarusians were Greek Catholic, who essentially follow Orthodox relegious traditions. Nobility converted to Roman Catholicism voluntary to enjoy certain priviledges. The main difference between Orthodoxy and Greek Catholicism is that the latter is under authority of Pope. To ordinary people the conversion did not mean thing in most cases. You should read how Russians butchered whole villages for refusal to convert from Greek Catholicism to Orthodoxy, and allowing to convert to another religion from Orthodoxy.

Empire has done what needed to be done in order to ensure integrity of the empire. When reading passages like yours I sometimes think Russian empire was too soft in dealings with all this ethnic discontent. They should've adopted 'civilized' British methods, than today we would've nobody to complain about 'evil imperialist Russians'.

When reading passage like yours everyone around sees how backward is Russian mentality. Such attitudes and behaviours is exactly the reason why every neighbouring nation of Russia in eastern Europe is hoping the backward empire (it is still an empire without a monarch) would collapse one day.

Try to write a physics article in Belarusian. That would be a funny read. Sure you can develop new vocabulary for it but why bother if since its very appearance the entire science in Belarus was running in well developed Russian? It's like inventing a bike all over again.

All in all as an independent entity Belarus only exists for just over 20 years. For their entire previous existence they were part of Russia or PLC and being positioned in the middle of that contest is what shaped their identity. Naturally being under someone's higher authority they were unable to develop vocabulary needed in state functioning or in science since they just used the one given by that authority. Today they can go any way they want and it seems they choose the easiest one.

Belarus was part of Lithuania in Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. Lithuania had a separate administration , separate courts, border customs, and constitutions written in Ruthenian (Old Belarusian). Many magnates and most great hetmans (commanders) of Lithuania and great chancellors of Lithuania were natives to territories of present day Belarus. See the article on ethnic composition of the ruling class in Lithuania during PLC I posted above. Also, if you know bits and pieces about history, then you have no idea about the language . Absolutely no idea what you are talking about the language.

[Rugevit]

PS: Individuals of such types do not repsent point of view of people. Actually majority view them as butthurted clowns and idiots.

If you age going to continue insulting other members littering the topic, you will be reported which may lead to disciplinary measures.