Indo-Europeanization of native Nordic people centuries before the Roman era

[Nordicist]

I recently talked to a friend who is doing Masters research in linguistics and who specializes on centum Indo-European languages said that one of the unique aspects of the Germanic language group is that 30-40% of proto-Germanic vocabulary is of non-Indo-European origin. She said that this converges with the theory that before the Indo-Europeanization of northern Europe and Scandinavia that the invading Aryans assimilated the proto-Europeans of northern Europe and adopted a lot of the words and customs of these native people. This also coincides with the fact that many Scandinavian and northern European men have Y-haplotype I-M-170 (a descendant of IJ), while males of Indo-European invaders typically have Y-haplotype R1a (found in large concentrations in Eastern Europe and northern India). This puts to rest that the Germanic people are the "purest" Aryans as advocated by Hitler and the Nazis. Research seems to indicate that modern-day Germanics are a solid mix between Indo-European invaders and native proto-Europeans.

What do you all think of this theory?

[sql]

There was a theory that the non-IE vocabulary in proto-Germanic was originally Semitic

[Nordicist]

There was a theory that the non-IE vocabulary in proto-Germanic was originally Semitic

That's a joke, right?

[sql]

That's a joke, right?

You would think so, but actually some people used to believe it

[Nordicist]

You would think so, but actually some people used to believe it

Actually, some speculate that the non-Indo-European words in proto-Germanic may have come from proto-Uralic speakers living in Scandinavia during the bronze age period.

[aherne]

I recently talked to a friend who is doing Masters research in linguistics and who specializes on centum Indo-European languages said that one of the unique aspects of the Germanic language group is that 30-40% of proto-Germanic vocabulary is of non-Indo-European origin. She said that this converges with the theory that before the Indo-Europeanization of northern Europe and Scandinavia that the invading Aryans assimilated the proto-Europeans of northern Europe and adopted a lot of the words and customs of these native people. This also coincides with the fact that many Scandinavian and northern European men have Y-haplotype I-M-170 (a descendant of IJ), while males of Indo-European invaders typically have Y-haplotype R1a (found in large concentrations in Eastern Europe and northern India). This puts to rest that the Germanic people are the "purest" Aryans as advocated by Hitler and the Nazis. Research seems to indicate that modern-day Germanics are a solid mix between Indo-European invaders and native proto-Europeans.

What do you all think of this theory?

This is not theory, this is known reality backed by all proofs possible (language, culture, race).

[Proto-Shaman]

These non-IE elements are partly Semitic and partly Turkic.

[Ardell]

I thought it was common knowledge that Germanics were not the highest % Caucasoid in Europe, Neolithic Farmers are.

Isn't the whole appeal with Germanic types the "progressive features" i.e. Blonde hair, blue eyes?

[Peterski]

I recently talked to a friend who is doing Masters research in linguistics and who specializes on centum Indo-European languages said that one of the unique aspects of the Germanic language group is that 30-40% of proto-Germanic vocabulary is of non-Indo-European origin. She said that this converges with the theory that before the Indo-Europeanization of northern Europe and Scandinavia that the invading Aryans assimilated the proto-Europeans of northern Europe and adopted a lot of the words and customs of these native people. This also coincides with the fact that many Scandinavian and northern European men have Y-haplotype I-M-170 (a descendant of IJ), while males of Indo-European invaders typically have Y-haplotype R1a (found in large concentrations in Eastern Europe and northern India). This puts to rest that the Germanic people are the "purest" Aryans as advocated by Hitler and the Nazis. Research seems to indicate that modern-day Germanics are a solid mix between Indo-European invaders and native proto-Europeans.

Nordicist, you are at least 2 years behind (not up-to-date) with recent findings concerning ancient DNA and migrations.

First of all - Yamnaya culture's Indo-Europeans from the steppe turned out to be mostly of R1b haplogroup, not R1a.

So now we know that both R1b and R1a are Indo-European, not just R1a.

I (Tomenable) posted about this in the links below, if you are interested:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post103226

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ern-day-clines

Here is a map of ancient DNA samples with R1a haplogroup from Europe and Asia (later I will make a similar one for R1b):

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...cultures/page5

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...cultures/page3

Maps:

http://s27.postimg.org/z29u09qxv/R1a_Europe_dates.png



http://s23.postimg.org/nen0yig57/R1a_Asia_dates.png



For now, I only have a map with ancient R1b samples from the Eurasian steppe (mostly Yamnaya people - they were dark-haired brunettes):

http://s30.postimg.org/4sarvtydt/Steppe_R1a_and_R1b.png



==========================

As for Europe - here is the data on ancient R1a in Europe (later I will make a similar list for R1b):

Samples of Ancient R1a from Europe (see the map above) in chronological sequence:

Signature of ancient male with R1a - place of burial - dating:

UZOO74 - Red Deer Island, Karelia - 5500-5000 BC
A3 - Serteya VIII, Smolensk Oblast - 4000 BC
RISE434 - Tiefbrunn, Bavaria - 2880-2630 BC
RISE436 - Tiefbrunn, Bavaria - 2868-2580 BC
RISE446 - Bergrheinfeld, Bavaria - 2829-2465 BC
EUL9(99-3) - Eulau, Sachsen-Anhalt - 2600 BC
EUL11(99-2) - Eulau, Sachsen-Anhalt - 2600 BC
EUL12(99-4) - Eulau, Sachsen-Anhalt - 2600 BC
RISE94 - Viby, Götaland - 2621-2472 BC
A8 - Naumovo, Pskov Oblast - 2500 BC
A9 - Serteya II, Smolensk Oblast - 2500 BC
RISE61 - Kyndeløse, Zealand - 2650-2300 BC
ESP11 - Esperstedt, Saxony-Anhalt - 2473-2348 BC
RISE431 - Łęki Małe, Greater Poland - 2286-2048 BC
Rogalin1 near Hrubieszów, Lublin Region - 2000 BC
Rogalin2 near Hrubieszów, Lublin Region - 2000 BC
RISE42 - Marbjerg, Zealand - 2191-1972 BC
HAL36 - Halberstadt, Sachsen-Anhalt - 1113-1021 BC
Tanais kurgan - Azov steppes, Maeotia - at least 1000 BC
M10 - Lichtenstein Cave near Dorste, Lower Saxony - 1000 BC
M11 - Lichtenstein Cave near Dorste, Lower Saxony - 1000 BC
RISE598 - Turlojiškė, Sudovia - 908-485 BC
A4 - Anashkino hillfort, Pskov Oblast - 800-400 BC

[Peterski]

Blonde hair, blue eyes?

And you are also 2 years behind in terms of knowledge on ancient DNA.

Blue eyes was a feature very common in Mesolithic Europe (back then it was actually more common than today), but those people - despite being blue-eyed - were mostly black-haired and brown-skinned (dark-pigmented). So there was no such a "light hair + blue eyes" combo.

As for blonde hair - it is a much younger feature. It was not present in Mesolithic Europe, at least not in any significant frequencies.

And you cannot look at modern frequencies because they don't show you the place of origin of certain features.

The oldest evidence of blonde hair - currently - seems to be the Asian steppe. A discussion about this here:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...pe-quot/page17

Let's see where does the oldest (to date) evidence of blondness come from.

1) Cases of ancient blondes where hair pigmentation survived:

The oldest discovered so-far example of a blond person from Scandinavia is a Bronze Age Egtved girl (dated to 1390-1370 BC). Egtved girl died in Denmark, but she was born more to the south, in Central Europe, as examination of isotope ratios in her tooth enamel shows.

Two Bronze Age blond mummies (photos posted by Krefter) from Xiaohe in the Tarim Basin (Xinjiang, western China), are older than Egtved girl (dated to ca. 1800 BC).

2) And cases where hair pigmentation was deduced from genes:

Old blondes (1800-1400 BC) from the borderland of Russia-Kazakhstan-Mongolia-China include individuals of Andronovo culture, S09 (woman) and S16 (man) described by Keyser 2009, "Ancient DNA provides new insights into the history of south Siberian Kurgan people".

As well as male individual TU34 from Takhilgat Uzuur in Mongolian Altai (ca. 1010 BC), who was dark blond with brown eyes, described in Hollard 2014, "Strong genetic admixture in the Altai at the Middle Bronze Age revealed by uniparental and ancestry informative markers".

Blondes could be present in western China and in the Altai 500 years before they appeared in Denmark.

Modern Kalash, Nuristanis, Tajiks, Uyghurs, Pashtuns, etc. have preserved these features to some extent.

As for haplogroup I-M170, you wrote:

This also coincides with the fact that many Scandinavian and northern European men have Y-haplotype I-M170 (a descendant of IJ)

Modern Scandinavians and northern European men with I-M170 have mostly I1 - which is just one of two main sub-branches of I-M170. And this sub-branch called I1 came to Scandinavia with Neolithic farmers of the northern group of TRB (Funnelbeaker) culture. We have samples from Scandinavian hunter-gatherers of Kongemose and Pitted Ware cultures - they were I2a1 and I2c, unlike modern Scandinavians.

The oldest so-far found sample of I1 was from Neolithic farmers of LBK-T culture (Linear Pottery culture in Transdanubia).

The "missing link" between Linear Pottery and Funnelbeaker, which could transmit I1 from LBK to TRB, seems to be Lengyel culture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lengyel_culture

Ultimately, I1 had been absorbed by farmers from hunter-gatherers (who learned how to farm and exploded demographically).