Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: Who were Sicily's Sicanians? Were they Indo-European, Afro-Asiatic, or Basque like?

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    @
    Country
    United States
    Region
    District of Columbia
    mtDNA
    H
    Taxonomy
    Mediterranean
    Politics
    Classic liberal
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    107,421
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 40,069
    Given: 10,740

    2 Not allowed!

    Default Who were Sicily's Sicanians? Were they Indo-European, Afro-Asiatic, or Basque like?

    The Sicanians were the original people of all of Sicily, inhabiting the whole island until demographic replacement or assimilation occurred. As they were the first inhabitants, it is likely that they still make up a large portion of Sicilian DNA.

    First, the Elymians came from Anatolia, an Indo-European people whose language shared some commonalities with Tyrrhenian (Etruscan, Lemnian, etc), Greek, and Anatolian languages. They settled the northwest corner of the island, pushing the Sicanians westward and assimilating those who remained.

    Next, the Sikels, an Italic people from the mainland, settled along the east coast, pushing the Sicanians back westward and assimilating those along the way.

    The Sicanians, as such, were pushed toward the center of the island, around Caltanissetta, Agrigento, and part of Palermo.




    So who were they?

    Iberian? One ancient Greek writer described them as Iberian, but his basis for this was unknown and indeed, there is little genetic similarity today between Sicilians and Iberians to support this, nor is there any frequency worth mentioning of Iberian R1b on the island, much less in the areas that had the highest concentration of Sicanian people.

    Afro-Asiatic? Another hypothesis has been that they were Afro-Asiatic speakers, related either to Natufians, Berbers, or both. This could be supported by pyramid-like structures that they built, their contact with ancient Egyptians for trade, and the high prevalence of Near Eastern DNA on the island, especially in regions that have been least touched by Norman, Lombard, Greek, etc. admixture.

    Bronze Age natives? Finally, the hypothesis I believe to be the most likely, is that they were the Bronze Age inhabitants, likely of similar stock to the people in the Aegean such as Minoans and Cypriots. This would make sense because of the high frequency of haplogroup G in inland Sicily and Agrigento, which is of Caucasian origin.

    Or maybe none of these are right. But my guess is that they were more, not less, Near Eastern than the population is today.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    @
    Country
    United States
    Region
    District of Columbia
    mtDNA
    H
    Taxonomy
    Mediterranean
    Politics
    Classic liberal
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    107,421
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 40,069
    Given: 10,740

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Here is a better map showing the tribes:


  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Online
    02-19-2017 @ 11:29 PM
    Ethnicity
    Mr. Cogito
    Country
    Poland
    Region
    Lublin
    Gender
    Posts
    4,350
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 4,617
    Given: 2,771

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Carthaginians lived there too.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    @
    Country
    United States
    Region
    District of Columbia
    mtDNA
    H
    Taxonomy
    Mediterranean
    Politics
    Classic liberal
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    107,421
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 40,069
    Given: 10,740

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bezprym View Post
    Carthaginians lived there too.
    What would you guess for the Sicanians? In my opinion, Iberian is almost entirely impossible, given the genetics today. But I don't know. I doubt they had much if any Indo-European influence until coming in contact with Sikels and Elymians.

    Haplogroups J1, T, and G seem high on the areas they inhabited.


  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Online
    02-19-2017 @ 11:29 PM
    Ethnicity
    Mr. Cogito
    Country
    Poland
    Region
    Lublin
    Gender
    Posts
    4,350
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 4,617
    Given: 2,771

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    What would you guess for the Sicanians? In my opinion, Iberian is almost entirely impossible, given the genetics today. But I don't know. I doubt they had much if any Indo-European influence until coming in contact with Sikels and Elymians.

    Haplogroups J1, T, and G seem high on the areas they inhabited.

    I don't know man, I know nothing about genetics. Just saying Carthaginians lived there too - it is a statement regarding history, not genetics.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Last Online
    06-20-2020 @ 04:44 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Euromutt (Celto-Germanic, Romance, Hellenic)
    Ethnicity
    White European
    Ancestry
    Sicilian, French, British Isles/Ireland, minor German
    Country
    United States
    Y-DNA
    Haplogroup G-L30
    mtDNA
    Haplogroup H24
    Taxonomy
    Nordo-Med
    Hero
    Camille Paglia
    Religion
    Cultural Catholicism & Orthodox Christianity
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Posts
    224
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 129
    Given: 13

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    I'd guess Bronze age/indigenous. As a Sicilian-American whose paternal DNA (from Sicily) is haplogroup G - I'd like to know. But, for the record, my family's from the Messina area, which is of course Sicel territory (not that the DNA couldn't still have come from a Sicani source). But, haplogroup G is crazy popular in Milazzo-Messina area where my family is from, I think.

  7. #7
    Banned by myself
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Last Online
    06-24-2018 @ 12:57 AM
    Ethnicity
    ...
    Country
    Antarctica
    Gender
    Posts
    231
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 152
    Given: 194

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    I believe in the third hypothesis, given their affinities with west asians.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    @
    Country
    United States
    Region
    District of Columbia
    mtDNA
    H
    Taxonomy
    Mediterranean
    Politics
    Classic liberal
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    107,421
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 40,069
    Given: 10,740

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Meruru View Post
    I believe in the third hypothesis, given their affinities with west asians.
    This is my thought. My guess would be that until the Siculi, who were Italic, and the Greek input, Sicily was almost surely genetically closest to Cyprus.

  9. #9
    Banned by myself
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Last Online
    06-24-2018 @ 12:57 AM
    Ethnicity
    ...
    Country
    Antarctica
    Gender
    Posts
    231
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 152
    Given: 194

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    This is my thought. My guess would be that until the Siculi, who were Italic, and the Greek input, Sicily was almost surely genetically closest to Cyprus.
    But the Italic was probably a minor substance, because they were basically the same thing as celts centuries ago and sicilians north european influences are too low.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    @
    Country
    United States
    Region
    District of Columbia
    mtDNA
    H
    Taxonomy
    Mediterranean
    Politics
    Classic liberal
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    107,421
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 40,069
    Given: 10,740

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Meruru View Post
    But the Italic was probably a minor substance, because they were basically the same thing as celts centuries ago and sicilians north european influences are too low.
    Then most of what shifts them away from Cyprus must be Norman and Greek.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Is IE closer to Uralic or Afro-Asiatic
    By Legion in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-20-2019, 12:36 PM
  2. Replies: 30
    Last Post: 04-29-2017, 03:35 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-20-2014, 09:55 PM
  4. How close are the Afro-Asiatic languages to each other?
    By Dombra in forum Ethno-Cultural Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-03-2014, 09:32 PM
  5. Replies: 62
    Last Post: 10-17-2013, 04:29 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •