Differences in Irish genetics on different parts of the island?

**~~Sikeliot~~** · 08-17-2016, 05:48 PM

I have been told far western Ireland is genetically isolated, but I have not seen proof of this other than speculation. Do they have less English, Scottish, Norman, and other Germanic input than other Irish do?

**Shlomica** · 08-17-2016, 05:56 PM

They should.

**~~Sikeliot~~** · 08-17-2016, 06:25 PM

I might actually be incorrect about Normans though... western Ireland, especially Connacht experienced a lot of Norman settlement, and Normans learned Gaelic rapidly. So even in the Gaelic parts of Ireland today, there may be Norman ancestry.

**Graham** · 08-22-2016, 04:25 PM

Ireland will have those groups, just not as influenced as their neighbours. All the irish cities were influenced by Vikings, and Ireland was under English rule from Norman times for 800 years. People wise perhaps less so.

Wales was probably more of a bottleneck population, with the limited surnames. Scots sort of sit between Ireland & England depending on where. England had more Germanic influence, with that rich land of theirs.

Sorry and Western Ireland, Ulster will be influenced by scots i'd have thought & more so as you go East.

Dublin, by British/English over time. Where the Pale is.

**Grace O'Malley** · 09-12-2016, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Sikeliot

I might actually be incorrect about Normans though... western Ireland, especially Connacht experienced a lot of Norman settlement, and Normans learned Gaelic rapidly. So even in the Gaelic parts of Ireland today, there may be Norman ancestry.

Normans went everywhere in Ireland but I'm not sure of what genetic impact they had if any. I know on the PoBI they said that Normans didn't have much impact but not sure how they worked that out or how they differentiated the French and Scandinavian components in that study.

Most of Ireland is quite similar genetically. It's not a big place afterall. I've seen there is a new calculator by Vadim (MDLP) coming out and he has samples from everywhere including all the areas of Ireland and all the other European countries. Can't wait for that one to go on Gedmatch.

I agree with Graham above. The north and western parts of Ireland appear to be similar to the Scots. The more southern counties might have more a pull to England.

The Normans in Ireland were interesting in that they became completely Irish in a few generations. There are many Norman names but I don't know if this will show up genetically. I've noticed that a lot of present day Normans are L21 and I don't think they were very different genetically anyway. Possibly some subclades might be more specific to Normans.

**Graham** · 09-12-2016, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley

Normans went everywhere in Ireland but I'm not sure of what genetic impact they had if any. I know on the PoBI they said that Normans didn't have much impact but not sure how they worked that out or how they differentiated the French and Scandinavian components in that study.

Most of Ireland is quite similar genetically. It's not a big place afterall. I've seen there is a new calculator by Vadim (MDLP) coming out and he has samples from everywhere including all the areas of Ireland and all the other European countries. Can't wait for that one to go on Gedmatch.

I agree with Graham above. The north and western parts of Ireland appear to be similar to the Scots. The more southern counties might have more a pull to England.

The Normans in Ireland were interesting in that they became completely Irish in a few generations. There are many Norman names but I don't know if this will show up genetically. I've noticed that a lot of present day Normans are L21 and I don't think they were very different genetically anyway. Possibly some subclades might be more specific to Normans.

Stewart royal Line over here is L21. Norman family that originated from Brittany. You wonder where the Norman families came from too.

Also you'd have the rich family owning the land. The average locals influenced culturally and perhaps folk taking on that surname with no genetic relation.

**Longbowman** · 09-12-2016, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Graham

Wales was probably more of a bottleneck population, with the limited surnames. Scots sort of sit between Ireland & England depending on where. England had more Germanic influence, with that rich land of theirs.

Wales used patronymics for a while. The similar surnames are not due to a bottleneck, just to dumb naming practises. The fact they're all called Davies, Jones and Williams is because those were common first names at the time (David, John, William).

Lothian is just as Germanic as England, the Isles even more so, especially Orkney and Shetland

**Graham** · 09-12-2016, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Longbowman

Wales used patronymics for a while. The similar surnames are not due to a bottleneck, just to dumb naming practises. The fact they're all called Davies, Jones and Williams is because those were common first names at the time (David, John, William).

Lothian is just as Germanic as England, the Isles even more so, especially Orkney and Shetland

Ironic that lothian is a celtic word.

I'd say East Lothian and Mid Lothian yes. But Edinburgh's a mix of incomers and West Lothians population isn't that old.