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Ignorant, 1790 is far away from 1820-1822.
Downfall[edit]
In 1819, Halet Efendi brought to the attention of Sultan Mahmud II issues conspicuously related to Ali Pasha; Halet Efendi accused Ali Pasha of grabbing power and influence in Ottoman Rumelia away from the Sublime Porte. In 1820, Ali Pasha, after long tensions with the Turkish Reforms, allegedly ordered the assassination of Gaskho Bey, a political opponent in Constantinople; Sultan Mahmud II, who sought to restore the authority of the Sublime Porte, took this as a major opportunity to move against Ali Pasha by ordering his immediate deposition.
Ali Pasha's head being presented to the Ottoman Sultan Mahmud II
Ali Pasha's tomb in Ioannina
Ali Pasha refused to resign his official post and put up a fierce resistance to the Sultan's troop movements, as some 20,000 Turkish troops led by Hursid Pasha were fighting Ali Pasha's small but formidable army. Most of his followers abandoned him without fighting and fled, including Androutsos and his sons Veli and Muhtar, or passed to the Ottoman army, such as Omer Vrioni and Alexis Noutsos, who went unopposed to Ioannina, which was besieged from September 1820.
On December 4, 1820, Ali Pasha and the Souliotes formed an anti-Ottoman coalition, to which the Souliotes contributed 3,000 soldiers. Ali Pasha gained the support of the Souliotes mainly because he offered to allow the return of the Souliotes to their land, and partly by appeal to their perceived Albanian origin.
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It literally says "conscripted cretans and slaves"
con·script
verb
past tense: conscripted; past participle: conscripted
kənˈskript/
enlist (someone) compulsorily, typically into the armed services.
Now this means that while the Venetians were holed up behind their walls for 21 years, the Ottomans were free on Crete "compelling" the locals to labor alongside slaves in their siege camps. This doesn't mean they weren't resisting in other ways, as they could.. it also doesn't mean they took up the religion of their invaders as did some.
Also, your calculations are wrong. The wikipedia article you quoted says that in the final phase of the siege, 38,000 conscripted Cretans were killed. If your "calculations" were correct that would mean that 76 % of the population of Crete was killed. Now even if you were correct, I say it gives more glory to the Cretans! To still remain a defiant people after an event whereby 76 % of their population was murdered.
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If you guys are so poor why are you online 24/7?My personal income is 700 euros/month , my dad's 900 and my moms 0. And we have to pay rent for three houses.
we dislike you because you dislike us, pretty simple. Your nation's number one ennemies are Greece and Serbia, whereas Greeks wouldn't give two fucks about North Epirus other than North Epirots themselves.Like just 2 weeks ago an Albanian nationalist was stopped at the border for trying to present a book about greater albania and the chameria bullshit .They feel superior than us because 95% of albanians work day and night to make some extra money and live a better life than they did growing up
Most people I know from my family have done all possible jobs, from being full time fishermen to construction work.and when i mean work i mean they do all the hard jobs that no greek wanted to do and still does not
Not all, but crime rates and especially murder rates are highest among Albanian immigrants. Maybe it's starting to change in the last few years but that doesn't change the fact that your countrymen gave themselves a bad reputation.I even posted personal stories about an Albanian employee of ours who ended up robbing my cousin after having worked for him for more than 15 years, with a salary higher than mine (about 1300/month).we are all thieves and killers in their eyes
Not really, not all Albanians are disliked, especially not the hard working ones.but the last years the albanians are starting to buy new houses in greece good cars getting good jobs etc and they start to hate so much on us cause they still have the image of the albanian that did not speak greek and would work 12 hours as a builder
But even within Albanian families you will find different sorts of people and different attitudes towards Greece, so don't expect us to like you all. For example one guy I know who works here has refused to get Greek citizenship because he sees it as an offense to be called a Greek, and is even trying to move back to Albania . At the same his daughter and son who have studied in Greek unis and were raised here have a totally different attitude, they don't want to go back and love the country almost as their own. Another example: back in university my best friend was a muslim from Korca. He didnt talk much about politics, but for some reason he avoided other Albanians, especially the recent immigrants.An other Albanian in my university class, on the other hand, wouldn't even talk to Greek guys, she would only talk to other girls for some reason.
But anyways like I said, when you serve you swear to defend the flag no matter what. That's why I still think you're a traitor, even though your attitude towards us can be justified given all the shits immigrants have to go through in this country.It's not just the immigrants who suffer though, trust me.
Last edited by Voskos; 08-29-2016 at 02:27 PM.
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Well im a (αυτοματισμος?) student dunno the english word..Im working as a pc technician..my wage is 900 euro but i do extra work on my own and it depends on the month i can get from 900 to 1500..Not really much for all the effort i put on..
Most albanians nowdays have a lot of money in banks or they build houses back in albania..(and dont tell me greece looses money cause greek immigrants to austalia or germany have done the same thing)but choose to live poorely in greece cause most of the intend to go back to albania some day.
Here in athens most people especially young people think its shameful to be working as a builder but its ok to stay at a cafe all day long and complain that there are no jobs in greece..A friend of mine (greek) was saying to me like a few months ago that he is bad economically and that he needed money as soon as possible so i told him that my uncle which has a souvlatzidiko can hire him to work there at making souvlakia etc and he refused he said thats a job for pakis too hard and pays too little (that were his exact words)...
I know that there are many albanian criminals but that doesnt mean everyone is one..And most of them are just drug dealers not killers or pimps
Also there are soooo many albanians that dont want to say that they are albanians because they know that greeks will treat them differently once they find out that they are albanians..Also about the incident of the albanian worker..he has no bes,there are people like him no matter the ethnicity,people that will do everything for money
Also about the war thing...I said if you dont like albanians go and attack ..i never said anything about me
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Glad to hear this(honestly).Well im a (αυτοματισμος?) student dunno the english word..Im working as a pc technician..
It's not rare to see spoiled people like this guy, but I can assure you that me and all my cousins have worked as luggage porters(me) , as security at clubs, as night receptionists 8hours/30 days a month/ no weekends. So I can assure you that the majority would have accepted the job. But yes, the truth is that in fields like construction there are 2-3 Albanians for every Greek guy. Just think about it though, do you think all of us would afford to refuse such a job ? I personally tried working in construction back when I was a student but I didn't get the job for not being experienced enough. If a guy has to choose between an inexperienced Greek university student and a 40 year old Albanian who does this since his youth whom do you think will they hire? And the opposite is also true, it is much less common for immigrants to get white collar jobs. So all in all I think its just a stereotype to think that Greeks are lazy and picky with their jobs, as much of a stereotype as saying all Albanians are builders and waiters.A friend of mine (greek) was saying to me like a few months ago that he is bad economically and that he needed money as soon as possible so i told him that my uncle which has a souvlatzidiko can hire him to work there at making souvlakia etc and he refused he said thats a job for pakis too hard and pays too little
of course not, but the first wave of migrants was unskilled, poor workforce , some of which chose to engage in criminal activities in order to survive. and one day it makes the news and your compatriots get a bad reputation, but dont blame Greeks for that.I know that there are many albanian criminals but that doesnt mean everyone is one..And most of them are just drug dealers not killers or pimps
Yes thats true unfortunately, but its not only against albanians. I've even seen job ads saying "no foreigners and no cypriots allowed" ...Greece has always been like this, but I doubt its much different in Albania. But you have a point , Greeks are racist. sometimes it can be fun to be racist. At least it's not as bad as being one of those rich, politically correct technocrats who will stab you behind your back one way or the other...Also there are soooo many albanians that dont want to say that they are albanians because they know that greeks will treat them differently once they find out that they are albanians
You are not the one to blame in my opinion, the Greek government is. It's natural for someone to be more attached to their ethnic group, which is why immigrants shouldn't get citizenship so easily .Also about the war thing...I said if you dont like albanians go attack them..i never said anything about me
You actually remind me of the footballer Benzema who said he felt more Algerian than French . Greece isn't going to be in a war with Albania anytime soon so I don't see much of an issue but it does sound offending to see a cocitizen talk about us like this.
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Do you really belive that Ottomans were good in these kinds of linguistic exercises?
I don't know where you have read this. You can assume but based in historical facts. History says Orthodox Church was the most important ally of the Ottomans. The reason was this eternal war against Catholics and West in general. So it's normal that even in this situation this orthodox people were side by side with Ottomans. Another reason is because for this orthodox rayah, the western feudalism was much more harsh than the Ottoman feudalism. This is an fact accepted by all.
Wow, this is a punch under the belt. Let me explain a couple of things. During the Ottoman Empire almost half of Balkanites converted in muslims. But in some country like Greece and Serbia, etc, many of this muslims converted again in christians. So, a part of today greeks are descendants of muslim forefathers.
But this conversion happened for different reasons. The situation was different from one country to another. I can say that nobody in the Balkans fought against the Ottomans like Albanians, from the first day until the last day. I don't have any data about an Greek resistance against the Ottomans during the invasion of Greece. The only resistance in what is today Greece, was albanian resistance. This combined with the demographic data put in serious discussion the existence of the greeks as a nation. Serbs at the beggining fought against the Ottomans, but after the battle of Kosova 1389, which was not an serb-ottoman battle because many Balkanites including Albanians partecipated, well after this battle serbs became the second most important ally of the Ottomans in Balcan. Serbs fought side by side with Ottomans from the highlands of Kelmendi in North Albania to the Gates of the City. The reason why Belgrade, this Southern Hungarian city is today the capital of Serbia, is thanks to this collaboration of Serbs with Ottomans. Serbs fought against everyone in Balkan, Albanians, Hungarians, Vlachs, Byzantines, Bulgars.
Ottomans recognised in this occupied territories only the Orthodox Church. And this church ensured to the Ottomans an easy life in this territories.
With Albanians the situation was different. The Ottomans could not forgive to this people the resistance. Was the Albanians who saved Italy from Ottoman invasion. So Albania was invaded by Ottomans and was not an vasal of Ottomans like Serbia. For this reasons mentioned by me and others, the Ottoman rule in Albania was more harsh than in other part of Balkans. And this is the first reason of the conversion of Albanians in Islam. The conversion started among catholics in North Albania. The reasons, appart the harsh rule of the Ottomans were also a total abandonment by the Vatican of this people. Also, Vatican sent in North Albania priests of slav origine who started a process slavisation among this people. The third reason was the powerful serb orthodox church, which with the help of their powerful ally, Ottomans started a process of conversion of this catholics in orthodox and as a direct consequence the slavisation of this Albanians. There are reports of Catholic priests to Vatican who describe exactly this situation. So, in front of this alternatives, converting in orthodoxy accompanied with the ethnic conversion and converting in Islam but preserving the ethnic identity, the Albanians opted for the second.
Do you know how many times during the history the islands of Greece have been emptied and repopulated with every kind of people? Crete is the perfect example of mixing of many populations.
Last edited by Laberia; 08-29-2016 at 04:18 PM.
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It sounds like you have invented yourself a cool story in order not to feel ashamed for your muslim heritage. Do you have any actual numbers on Greeks who converted back to christianity or will you just repeat it over and over to convince people Greek christians are all closet muslims?
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