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Thread: Is Finland becoming communist?

  1. #11
    Work in progress MissMischief's Avatar
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    This is an answer to a problem that does not exist yet.

    The idea is that in the next 50 years we will see massive, endemic and constant unemployment due to automation. The only way of dealing with this will be to have a base payment that will enable the majority of the populace to live.

    The issue is we can't be sure this situation will ever emerge - predictions of mass unemployment caused by modernisation has been around since the steam engine.
    Last edited by MissMischief; 09-03-2016 at 03:45 PM.

  2. #12
    Veteran Member щрбл's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catgeorge View Post
    This is not communist - this is very smart
    Spoken like a true Greek.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neon Knight View Post
    Experimenting with policies is a good thing, instead of people pretending they can predict everything. It could work with strong immigration controls.
    Social parasites have no colour, nor nationality. (they actually do, but that's not the point here)
    Agreed, experimenting with other people's lives is a good thing as long as it stays at least 1000 km away from one's place.

    Quote Originally Posted by MissMischief View Post
    This is an answer to a problem that does not exist yet.

    The idea is that in the next 50 years we will see massive, endemic and constant unemployment due to automation. The only way of dealing with this will be to have a base payment that will enable the majority of the populace to live.

    The issue is we can't be sure this situation will ever emerge - predictions of mass unemployment caused by modernisation has been around since the steam engine.
    Or to educate themeselves. New jobs are constantly created, one can either adapt to an ever changing environment or complain about it. Actually, this basic income being implemened as an unconditional income is really frightening. It sounds like we are witnessing the advent of a new era where being a slob is not only socially acceptable but legally encouraged. And also, let's not forget that someone has to pay for all of this circus (money doesn't grow on trees, unfortunately, even though I wish it did). Just imagine, these people will have the exact same rights to vote like you and I. I find this offensively egalitarian.

    And all I see is more of this:

    (could be anyone though, not just darkies )
    - Mongol Pride Worldwide -
    - Uzbek Pride Worldwide -
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  3. #13
    Banned Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catgeorge View Post
    How does it fuck the poor when that money is circulated back into the economy almost by force? The poor never had that momney to begin with and small business has opportunity to grow
    Nevermind that was stupid of me to say.

  4. #14
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    Or to educate themeselves. New jobs are constantly created, one can either adapt to an ever changing environment or complain about it. Actually, this basic income being implemened as an unconditional income is really frightening. It sounds like we are witnessing the advent of a new era where being a slob is not only socially acceptable but legally encouraged. And also, let's not forget that someone has to pay for all of this circus (money doesn't grow on trees, unfortunately, even though I wish it did)
    Basic income system does not actually cost anymore to the society than the current one. Bureacracy strip-down would create savings. None of the people who work in social services etc. do "real work". These are all jobs which only circulate the money within the system. There are very few real jobs, ie. jobs that create wealth to a nation: these would be engineers etc. People working in exports.

    The basic income would be much less than what unemployed currently get in social services. Currently the system discourages work in low payed/part time jobs as accepting a job would mean - in many cases - that the person accepting the job would be making less money than he/she gets filing in the reports to the social services.

    So, for the unemployed: Less money, but on the plus side no more paperwork and begging.
    If the basic income is done right it should actually encourage work and private enterprise. Of course there is that percentage of hippies who will flee to Goa never to be seen again.

  5. #15
    Kretschmonaut Apricity Funding Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valtaves View Post
    Basic income system does not actually cost anymore to the society than the current one. Bureacracy strip-down would create savings. None of the people who work in social services etc. do "real work". These are all jobs which only circulate the money within the system. There are very few real jobs, ie. jobs that create wealth to a nation: these would be engineers etc. People working in exports.

    The basic income would be much less than what unemployed currently get in social services. Currently the system discourages work in low payed/part time jobs as accepting a job would mean - in many cases - that the person accepting the job would be making less money than he/she gets filing in the reports to the social services.

    So, for the unemployed: Less money, but on the plus side no more paperwork and begging.
    If the basic income is done right it should actually encourage work and private enterprise. Of course there is that percentage of hippies who will flee to Goa never to be seen again.
    Make it available to residents only - hippies screwed.

  6. #16
    Veteran Member щрбл's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valtaves View Post
    Basic income system does not actually cost anymore to the society than the current one. Bureacracy strip-down would create savings. None of the people who work in social services etc. do "real work". These are all jobs which only circulate the money within the system. There are very few real jobs, ie. jobs that create wealth to a nation: these would be engineers etc. People working in exports.

    The basic income would be much less than what unemployed currently get in social services. Currently the system discourages work in low payed/part time jobs as accepting a job would mean - in many cases - that the person accepting the job would be making less money than he/she gets filing in the reports to the social services.

    So, for the unemployed: Less money, but on the plus side no more paperwork and begging.
    If the basic income is done right it should actually encourage work and private enterprise. Of course there is that percentage of hippies who will flee to Goa never to be seen again.
    Agreed about the bureaucracy. Nobody likes state parasites.

    However, what stops, let's say, a group of three people to decide to never ever work in their lives and put together their basic universal income. The unconditional character of the universal income is what bugs me the most. It feels like killing every incetive to find a job or to get new qualifications, rather than striving to find a job in the private sector, for example.

    And also, considering that everybody would be entitled to a minimal wage, how are we preventing prices and generally speaking cost of live from going up?
    - Mongol Pride Worldwide -
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