Could the Doric vs Ionic divide in ancient Sicily explain some of the genetic differences today?

[Sikeliot]

This may be a big stretch, but I have concluded through many samples I have seen on 23andme, GEDmatch and so on, that there are at least four genetic clusters within Sicily, and of those four, two of them may largely be due to the source of Greek settlement:

- Messina, Catania, and (parts of) Palermo, which are genetically similar to one another, were Ionian,
- Ragusa, Syracuse, and southern Sicily were Doric




Ionic Greeks were the "eastern" subset of Greeks, from the Aegean islands, Euboea, and Anatolia. Doric Greeks were centered on the Peloponnese. Today, we notice the similarities between NE Sicily and the Aegean islands, while people in Syracuse and Ragusa are drifting toward, if not plotting with, the Peloponnese. I can provide proof of this should anyone ask.




Might these genetic divisions be, in part, due to large settlements of Doric Greeks in Syracuse, Ragusa and so on, while the Greeks in Messina and Catania may have been from the Aegean and Anatolia.

Of course, there are also Sicilians in Palermo who are genetically higher than average SW Asian and NW African and drift toward Moroccan Jews, while some people in Trapani have elevated Norman and shift northwest, but all in all I think a large part of the genetic differences may be due to the sources of Greek settlement being from different Greek tribes.

[Inquizzzitor]

Yes, I think that is a possibility. It would seem odd, in fact, if where the original Greek settlers were from had NO impact on the Sicilian genome. That being said, I don't know (and I suspect you don't either) how different, genetically, ancient Ionic types were from say, Achaeans. Dorics and their famous so-called "invasion" (was it really?) have some of the most mysterious origins, as you know, though it is generally theorized they came down from the mountains in NW Greece....and before that, who knows?

[Sikeliot]

Yes, I think that is a possibility. It would seem odd, in fact, if where the original Greek settlers were from had NO impact on the Sicilian genome. That being said, I don't know (and I suspect you don't either) how different, genetically, ancient Ionic types were from say, Achaeans. Dorics and their famous so-called "invasion" (was it really?) have some of the most mysterious origins, as you know, though it is generally theorized they came down from the mountains in NW Greece....and before that, who knows?

My thought, most recently, is that the Greek input was much stronger in the southeast (Syracuse, Ragusa, and so on) and much weaker in Messina.

[Inquizzzitor]

And Messinese are predominantly - what? Caucasian/MENA? They're the darkest people in Sicily, on par with Calabrians, with whom they actually might be closer genetically than to other Sicilians, although I do admit there are a few strange outliers in Palermo due perhaps to its cosmopolitan nature and being the center of the caliphate in times past. Palermo is such a weird phenotypical mix, you get what look like near-Normans walking next to near-Arabs.

As I mentioned, my Messina paternal haplogroup is G, which, sure, originates in the Caucusus, but is also one of the oldest European haplogroups (along with now, the rarest, coming in at less than 1% of European paternal haplogroups). But in the Messina area I believe it's more like 20-30%.