An Independent Northern Ireland

[Óttar]

What would an independent Northern Ireland be like? Not bound with the Republic or the United Kingdom. Would it be able to stand on its own? Would everyone get along? Would it be a great experiment in how a small self-ruled territory can survive or thrive? (Think about the implications for a Europe of 100 flags kind of scenario.)

I prefer this for its flag: A St. Patrick's cross, the yellow of the provincial flag and the Red Hand, a traditional northern Irish symbol identified with by both communities, in their own respective ways.



One site campaigns for an "independent Ulster", but this is a misnomer as 3 of geographical Ulster's 9 counties are in the Republic.

Discuss.

[Wyn]

Would everyone get along?

Well obviously, an independent Northern Ireland is not going to attract the support of nationalists/republicans, so you'd have a fairly large chunk of the population whose political opinions haven't changed (realistically anything other than a 32 county Irish republic is going to be unacceptable). Never mind the unionists, who sincerely believe in the Union.

There is one group that I believe would be satisfied though - a small portion of "loyalists". I genuinely believe that the "Unionism" of many hardline loyalists in N. Ireland is just a manifestation of their opposition to a united Ireland. I don't doubt the likes of Ian Paisley and Sammy Wilson would love their own state.

But really, the biggest problem with the idea is that it serves no purpose. NI exists really as a means of the British govt withholding what strength they have on the island by drawing an arbitrary line. The line was drawn to keep as much of Ireland within the UK as possible. Without the union with GB, NI exists as an anomaly.

Just my 2c...

[Óttar]

But really, the biggest problem with the idea is that it serves no purpose. NI exists really as a means of the British govt withholding what strength they have on the island by drawing an arbitrary line.

Yes. The UK still governs Northern Ireland partly because of the sea lanes which are critical militarily.

But as far as I know, British troops have largely withdrawn from NI and actual residents do the policing? (i.e. PSNI) I've heard the British government would like to be done with NI because it is a strain on the government's budget.

If a campaign for independence in Scotland or England succeeded, it would make the Northern Irish situation even more interesting because then union with the United Kingdom (non-existent in this scenario) would be a complete anachronism.

[Treffie]

Would everyone get along?

Do people get along in the middle east? How long is a piece of string?

[British and Proud]

This is the unofficial flag of Ulster's independence movement:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Nation.svg.png

It is a combination of the Cross of St. Andrew and the Cross of St. Patrick with the Red Hand of Ulster - fusing Irish, Scottish and Gaelic identities.

You can find more about it on Wikipedia and Ulster Nation 'a third way for Ulster'.

[Wyn]

They'll need to stop that 'Ulster' stuff.

[Murphy]

Not sure how I would feel about it.. it would be the right step towards a united Ireland there can be no doubt about it, and I am willing to let the Loyalists go at their own pace. They cannot be rushed, a mentality that has been reinforced by the wrong sorts for years has to be carefully broken down.

As long as they can guarantee that it would not be a Protestant state for Protestant people, I wont be too loud in my criticisms.

[Wyn]

Not sure how I would feel about it.. it would be the right step towards a united Ireland there can be no doubt about it, and I am willing to let the Loyalists go at their own pace. They cannot be rushed, a mentality that has been reinforced by the wrong sorts for years has to be carefully broken down.

As long as they can guarantee that it would not be a Protestant state for Protestant people, I wont be too loud in my criticisms.

You'd want to be careful. An independent NI could be the nail in the coffin for the UI movement. NI has basically been one long process of normalisation and trying to turn the Irish population into a non-Irish population. Now, more and more Catholics are describing themselves as Northern Irish and are really just growing accustomed to being outside of an Irish republic. While NI is a part of the UK, the perpetual Unionist-Nationalist battle reinforces identities. But an independent NI could put an end to all that.

[Murphy]

You'd want to be careful. An independent NI could be the nail in the coffin for the UI movement. NI has basically been one long process of normalisation and trying to turn the Irish population into a non-Irish population. Now, more and more Catholics are describing themselves as Northern Irish and are really just growing accustomed to being outside of an Irish republic. While NI is a part of the UK, the perpetual Unionist-Nationalist battle reinforces identities. But an independent NI could put an end to all that.

Possibly, but an independent 6 Counties would also be a golden opportunity for the Republic. Britain will not really have any interest in economic investment in the north. There could be an argument that Westminster would help out of some sense of loyalty.. but we both know how hilarious that notion is.

That means in all reality the north will need to cooperate with the Republic on economic terms if it is to survive. The Republic can offer it investment opportunities. Both ways really.

And going via the Republic will also open up possibilities with Britain that wouldn't be possible with an isolated 6 Counties.

[British and Proud]

Possibly, but an independent 6 Counties would also be a golden opportunity for the Republic. Britain will not really have any interest in economic investment in the north. There could be an argument that Westminster would help out of some sense of loyalty.. but we both know how hilarious that notion is.

That means in all reality the north will need to cooperate with the Republic on economic terms if it is to survive. The Republic can offer it investment opportunities. Both ways really.

And going via the Republic will also open up possibilities with Britain that wouldn't be possible with an isolated 6 Counties.

If Northern Ireland became independent it would, like Eire, receive far more funding from the EU. It is as economically viable as Eire, IMHO.