Ancient Greeks may have built China's famous Terracota Army 1.500 years before Marco Polo

[Dandelion]

They want to believe every great civilization is the White man's creation and domain.

Arabs also had a semblance of civilization thanks to Ancient Greek influence.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

thought this would be a Raine thread

[wvwvw]

wait wat

Bodhidharma was a the son of a Tamil Brahmin ruler


he would not have known "Pankration" as he wasn't from the region Greeks influenced.
The martial art style he would have known would have been "Kalaripayatu" and Kung-Fu is likely derived from that.

The idea that this Greek art is one of the major sources of all Asian unarmed martial arts today is not at all far-fetched.

Masutatsu Oyama (1923-1994) was the acclaimed Kyokushinkai founder and martial arts Grandmaster who was born in South Korean. He began studying Shoto-Kan with Giko Funakoshi, the second son of Master Gichin Funakoshi, who introduced Karate to Japan and Okinawa.

Higaonna Morio is a figure of such imposing stature in the world of karate that he genuinely needs no introduction.

Whether there has been a net gain is left up to the reader to ponder. This book is easily one of the best of the very few, serious martial arts histories, and it is full of interesting surprises. For example, the author cites Miyagi Chojun as describing three legends current in China and Okinawa which trace the origins of the martial arts. One of these legends places these origins in Asia Minor. I found this fascinating, as the oldest complete martial art known is the Greek pankration which became an Olympic event in 648 BC. The date antedates documentary or dated archeological sources for any other martial art. The pyrrhic dance, a Greek martial dance which could be performed armed or unarmed, similar to modern kata, existed at the same time and was possibly used as a teaching tool for the techniques of the pankration. The idea that this Greek art is one of the major sources of all Asian unarmed martial arts today is not at all far-fetched. Alexander the Great was a pankration enthusiast, and the pankration, foremost among other Greek martial sports, went into Asia as far as India with Alexander's armies of conquest. Alexander was the greatest general of his time and one of the greatest generals of all time. He and his armies enjoyed enormous prestige everywhere in the ancient world. Instruction in the favored martial art of that army would be highly valued by any soldier or warrior of the period. Isn't is interesting that an Okinawan legend indicates a possible Greek origin for the Asian martial arts?

The History of Karate: Okinawan Goju-ryu is a treasure house of facts concerning the early history of a deservedly popular style of karate, and it contains wonderful descriptions of the early training in Okinawa. But there is much more here. Miyagi Chojun's ethical ideals, teaching methods, and way of life provide a valuable source of guidelines for the modern karateka's approach to karate. This book should be on the shelf of every serious student of karate, and it should be read often.

http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Produc...juhistrev.html

[Myanthropologies]

Arabs also had a semblance of civilization thanks to Ancient Greek influence.

Other way around, actually, if you count the ancient Levantines.

[wvwvw]

Masutatsu Oyama, believed that the origin of modern karate was to be
found in the most popular - and brutal- of Greek Olympic games:
pankration. Although pankration was a sport, introduced into the
Olympics in 648B.C., it was also a martial art like those of the Orient
in that it began as training and recreation for soldiers.

In fact, sports were initially encouraged in ancient Greece
precisely because the very safety and survival of the Greek city-state
depended on the athletic and military skills of the citizens. The
Spartans allowed every technique in their style of pankration because
they used it to prepare for war. In Olympic pankration, two men
competed in unarmed combat using all their powers until one gave up,
with surrender indicated by the raising of one hand as in the
gladiatorial combat of the later Roman arena. A man could kick, punch,
use locks and throws - anything, in fact, except bite or gouge the soft
parts of the body such as the eyes, throat and genitals. Also like the
later roman gladiatorial situation, a trainer would stand by with a club
or whip to ensure that those few rules were not violated. The Greeks
also prepared for this martial art by practicing blows against a large
skin filled with seeds, grain or sand, just as modern karate
practitioners use a heavy bag. Another similarity between Greek boxing
and modern martial arts is that the Greeks used the open hand, an almost
universal trait in the Oriental martial arts.
Additional similarities between the Greek and Oriental martial arts
can be noted in the dance-like movements used by practitioners. Around
500B.C. in Athens, the Greeks performed a gymnastic dance called
pyrrhic. It was regarded as an important means to develop agility and
prepare young men for actual combat. These dances were often done to
music, with the performers sometimes using weapons as part of their
dance. Oyama saw a moral and spiritual connection, as well as a
practical relationship of timing and rhythm, between music and karate.
This description matches exactly the modern karate and kung fu kata
- a dance like series of prearranged movements meant to demonstrate the
proper form used in a particular martial art defense and attack.. Just
as with pyrrhic, kata are intended to develop agility and prepare
practitioners for actual combat. In both pyrrhic and kata, weapons are
sometimes used and the dance is often done to music. finally, there
were frequent competitions among the dancers of pyrrhic, just as there
are among karate practitioners who perform kata.
The midpoint in tracing the mainline history of the martial arts
from Greece to the Orient to the United States is India. India serves
as the transition point that explains the transmission of Greek martial
sport to the East. This movement of the martial arts from Greece
through India to the Far East to America has some support from evidence
found in signs and symbols. The symbol for Okinawan karate, for
example, is the mirror image of a common sign used in ancient Greece: a
three-legged figure called the triskelion. The triskelion is also an
Indian symbol of the Hindu trinity as well as the Buddhist tongue of
Kumarajiva.
Besides this sketchy symbolic connection, there is historical
evidence that the mainstream of martial arts swung eastward from Greece
with the armies of Alexander the Great in the fourth century B.C.
Alexander's conquests brought Greek civilization as far east as northern
India in 327.
Like Napoleon in Egypt 2,000 years later, Alexander brought his
native culture with him and introduced it to the conquered peoples. As
a result, he carried Greek athletics, including pankration, to India.
In India, pankration may have combined with a native Indian form of
unarmed combat, called vajramushti, to form an early style of karate.
Evidence for an Indian form of karate comes only indirectly from the
statues of Japanese noi, or Bodhisattva, temple guardians that are
replicas of Indian Buddhist prototypes.
A link between Hellenistic culture and athletics, and the early
development of karate-like combat in India and China, may also be found
in Buddhism. The Indian king Asoka, an ally of Alexander the Great,
spread Buddhism throughout India - a Buddhism strongly influenced by
Greek culture. Asoka's Gandharan kingdom, in fact, acted as "a
Hellenic filter" that brought Greek influence not only to India but to
all of Asia on the wings of Buddhism. It was this Gandharan art that
created the human image of Buddha. Just as the Indian Buddhists
introduced Greek-style statuary, called Gandharan, into China, it was an
Indian Buddhist monk named Bodhidharma (Daruma) who introduced Zen
Buddhism and an early form of karate into China around 520A.D.
There are conflicting accounts in the form of legends as to why
Bodhidharma left India for China, but they all agree that he took with
him a knowledge of the martial arts. Although it is speculation, it is
not without reason to suspect that the Indian Buddhist monk was familiar
with Greek culture and athletics, more particularly with the pankration
brought by Alexander to India. Bodhidharma was also an aristocrat and
was therefore almost certainly familiar with the Indian martial art
vajramushti. At any rate, he took up residence in China at the Buddhist
Shaolin Temple at Sung Shan in Henan (Hunan) Province. Here, he taught
the monks his system of Zen Buddhism as well as his skill in empty-hand
fighting - a style that most likely contained elements of Greek
pankration and Indian vajramushti.

[Hithaeglir]

Dis is old news. Anyways i remember reading some years ago an article in National Geographic,suggesting that Chinese may have had contact with Ancient Greeks,because the style of their statues changed from a very stand still style to a more realistic one,more definition on the muscles,legs,fingers etc.

But these stuff are mostly speculations.

[Dandelion]

Other way around, actually, if you count the ancient Levantines.

Phoenicians aren't Arabs.

[Hithaeglir]

Masutatsu Oyama, believed that the origin of modern karate was to be
found in the most popular - and brutal- of Greek Olympic games:
pankration. Although pankration was a sport, introduced into the
Olympics in 648B.C., it was also a martial art like those of the Orient
in that it began as training and recreation for soldiers.

In fact, sports were initially encouraged in ancient Greece
precisely because the very safety and survival of the Greek city-state
depended on the athletic and military skills of the citizens. The
Spartans allowed every technique in their style of pankration because
they used it to prepare for war. In Olympic pankration, two men
competed in unarmed combat using all their powers until one gave up,
with surrender indicated by the raising of one hand as in the
gladiatorial combat of the later Roman arena. A man could kick, punch,
use locks and throws - anything, in fact, except bite or gouge the soft
parts of the body such as the eyes, throat and genitals. Also like the
later roman gladiatorial situation, a trainer would stand by with a club
or whip to ensure that those few rules were not violated. The Greeks
also prepared for this martial art by practicing blows against a large
skin filled with seeds, grain or sand, just as modern karate
practitioners use a heavy bag. Another similarity between Greek boxing
and modern martial arts is that the Greeks used the open hand, an almost
universal trait in the Oriental martial arts.
Additional similarities between the Greek and Oriental martial arts
can be noted in the dance-like movements used by practitioners. Around
500B.C. in Athens, the Greeks performed a gymnastic dance called
pyrrhic. It was regarded as an important means to develop agility and
prepare young men for actual combat. These dances were often done to
music, with the performers sometimes using weapons as part of their
dance. Oyama saw a moral and spiritual connection, as well as a
practical relationship of timing and rhythm, between music and karate.
This description matches exactly the modern karate and kung fu kata
- a dance like series of prearranged movements meant to demonstrate the
proper form used in a particular martial art defense and attack.. Just
as with pyrrhic, kata are intended to develop agility and prepare
practitioners for actual combat. In both pyrrhic and kata, weapons are
sometimes used and the dance is often done to music. finally, there
were frequent competitions among the dancers of pyrrhic, just as there
are among karate practitioners who perform kata.
The midpoint in tracing the mainline history of the martial arts
from Greece to the Orient to the United States is India. India serves
as the transition point that explains the transmission of Greek martial
sport to the East. This movement of the martial arts from Greece
through India to the Far East to America has some support from evidence
found in signs and symbols. The symbol for Okinawan karate, for
example, is the mirror image of a common sign used in ancient Greece: a
three-legged figure called the triskelion. The triskelion is also an
Indian symbol of the Hindu trinity as well as the Buddhist tongue of
Kumarajiva.
Besides this sketchy symbolic connection, there is historical
evidence that the mainstream of martial arts swung eastward from Greece
with the armies of Alexander the Great in the fourth century B.C.
Alexander's conquests brought Greek civilization as far east as northern
India in 327.
Like Napoleon in Egypt 2,000 years later, Alexander brought his
native culture with him and introduced it to the conquered peoples. As
a result, he carried Greek athletics, including pankration, to India.
In India, pankration may have combined with a native Indian form of
unarmed combat, called vajramushti, to form an early style of karate.
Evidence for an Indian form of karate comes only indirectly from the
statues of Japanese noi, or Bodhisattva, temple guardians that are
replicas of Indian Buddhist prototypes.
A link between Hellenistic culture and athletics, and the early
development of karate-like combat in India and China, may also be found
in Buddhism. The Indian king Asoka, an ally of Alexander the Great,
spread Buddhism throughout India - a Buddhism strongly influenced by
Greek culture. Asoka's Gandharan kingdom, in fact, acted as "a
Hellenic filter" that brought Greek influence not only to India but to
all of Asia on the wings of Buddhism. It was this Gandharan art that
created the human image of Buddha. Just as the Indian Buddhists
introduced Greek-style statuary, called Gandharan, into China, it was an
Indian Buddhist monk named Bodhidharma (Daruma) who introduced Zen
Buddhism and an early form of karate into China around 520A.D.
There are conflicting accounts in the form of legends as to why
Bodhidharma left India for China, but they all agree that he took with
him a knowledge of the martial arts. Although it is speculation, it is
not without reason to suspect that the Indian Buddhist monk was familiar
with Greek culture and athletics, more particularly with the pankration
brought by Alexander to India. Bodhidharma was also an aristocrat and
was therefore almost certainly familiar with the Indian martial art
vajramushti. At any rate, he took up residence in China at the Buddhist
Shaolin Temple at Sung Shan in Henan (Hunan) Province. Here, he taught
the monks his system of Zen Buddhism as well as his skill in empty-hand
fighting - a style that most likely contained elements of Greek
pankration and Indian vajramushti.

Pankration is very different to Karate, my compatriot

[Dandelion]

Dis is old news. Anyways i remember reading some years ago an article in National Geographic,suggesting that Chinese may have had contact with Ancient Greeks,because the style of their statues changed from a very stand still style to a more realistic one,more definition on the muscles,legs,fingers etc.

But these stuff are mostly speculations.

And it isn't as far-fetched neither. Ancient Greeks were a curious exploring civilization.



(also old news, just a reference)

[wvwvw]