Free Will vs Determinism

**~~Herr Abubu~~** · 12-02-2016, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Petros Agapetos

We don't need free will to explain anything physical. This is why the problem of free will is a problem. We have a strong illusion that our conscious minds are the ultimate authors of our thoughts and actions. But neuroscience and physics seem to be indicating (currently at least) that free will is probably a very powerful illusion, it is like an urge that you get, which assigns the sense of authorship over your behaviour. But there is no evidence in modern science that I know of that opens up the possibility of libertarian free will to exist.

I am a determinist and a compatibilist at that. I try to square free will with determinism, but in order to do so, one must let libertarian free will go.
You are not really the author of your thoughts and actions, you simply feel that way. There is nothing in evidence that corroborates this feeling.

Assuming determinism, you wouldn't be able to know whether free will exists or not.

**Neon Knight** · 12-03-2016, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Herr Abubu

"Religion: Philosophical" ... But can't understand a relatively simple concept like free will.

The problem is, free will is a non-concept. It says that human behaviour is partially independent of cause. So if behaviour is not caused and not random then what is it?

**~~Herr Abubu~~** · 12-03-2016, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Neon Knight

The problem is, free will is a non-concept. It says that human behaviour is partially independent of cause. So if behaviour is not caused and not random then what is it?

It isn't a non-concept, you are just incapable of higher levels of non-autistic immaterialistic thinking.

The gist of free will is that Man has Will and that he can Will something that is in His control to happen. Man is capable of being a cause on his own due to his free will. You used your Will to respond to me, for example.

If you deny any of this, you also deny your capability of knowing this, because you are simply a robot, then. Your self-awareness is an illusion, though this begs the question of how one could have an illusion of self-awareness if one wasn't self-aware to begin with, and anything you say or do isn't really meaningful.

Our thoughts are immaterial. The very act of thinking is in our experience not material. Words, f.e., have meaning that we shouldn't expect in a materialistic world because meaning itself is immaterial.

**Danaan** · 12-03-2016, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Bezprym

If God gave free will to people, then he cannot intervene in their decisions, hence is not almighty. If God is almighty, there's no free will.

Not true.

**Neon Knight** · 12-03-2016, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Herr Abubu

It isn't a non-concept, you are just incapable of higher levels of non-autistic immaterialistic thinking.

The gist of free will is that Man has Will and that he can Will something that is in His control to happen. Man is capable of being a cause on his own due to his free will. You used your Will to respond to me, for example.

If you deny any of this, you also deny your capability of knowing this, because you are simply a robot, then. Your self-awareness is an illusion, though this begs the question of how one could have an illusion of self-awareness if one wasn't self-aware to begin with, and anything you say or do isn't really meaningful.

Our thoughts are immaterial. The very act of thinking is in our experience not material. Words, f.e., have meaning that we shouldn't expect in a materialistic world because meaning itself is immaterial.

Ignoring your strange insult, you are confusing free will and awareness - the two are separate things. I am aware of my heart beating but I do not consciously control it.

Man can will something? How? Would you try to explain animal behaviour by free will?

**Aviator** · 12-03-2016, 10:34 AM

Once something has happened, we know it was the only thing that could have ever happened in this universe. It happened, and it was always going to happen. Rewinding time would be like rewinding a movie; the same thing would play out over and over again. The illusion of free will is important, but ultimately humans are bound by determinism.

Free will is the ability to have chosen option A in a universe where you chose option B. That simply isn't possible.

**Aviator** · 12-03-2016, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by zhaoyun

I think it's a combination of both. But in American society, I think Free Will is 70% of the game, and Determinism is about 30% of where you will likely end up in life. However, if you're a woman in Saudi Arabia, it's pretty much going to be 5% free will and 95% determinism.

That has to do more with freedom of action than actual free will.

**~~Herr Abubu~~** · 12-03-2016, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Neon Knight

Ignoring your strange insult, you are confusing free will and awareness - the two are separate things. I am aware of my heart beating but I do not consciously control it.

Look at you talking. You know nothing about philosophy, and yet here you are telling me that I am confusing things.

Man can will something? How? Would you try to explain animal behaviour by free will?[/QUOTE]

No, I am not confusing anything. It is you who don't know any philosophy and yet have the galls to pretend to talk about it with someone who does. You didn't understand what my point about self-awareness, nor the implication of either free will and self-awareness on each other, was about like a complete utter idiot.

You assume men are animals. Men don't go only by instinct, unlike animals. Maybe you would have it otherwise, but that tells more about you than it does about mankind.

Again, if free will didn't exist, you wouldn't know that it didn't exist.

Originally Posted by Aviator

Once something has happened, we know it was the only thing that could have ever happened in this universe. It happened, and it was always going to happen. Rewinding time would be like rewinding a movie; the same thing would play out over and over again. The illusion of free will is important, but ultimately humans are bound by determinism.

Free will is the ability to have chosen option A in a universe where you chose option B. That simply isn't possible.

What a moronic question begging mind-fart of a non-sequitur that redefines free will completely to something utterly absurd, you WASP retard. Your definition of free will isn't coherent and begs-begs-begs the question. "Because you chose B instead of A, you don't have free will, because we don't have free will." The level of thinking is abysmal, but you can't help it being a WASP genetic CUCK.

If you have enough money for either a chocolate A or chocolate B but not both, you choose one of them, you can choose out of your free will either of them. It is free will unless there is no choice. It's really simple and you retards can't get it.

**~~Bezprym~~** · 12-03-2016, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Danaan

Not true.

Aha.

**Aviator** · 12-04-2016, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Herr Abubu

What a moronic question begging mind-fart of a non-sequitur that redefines free will completely to something utterly absurd, you WASP retard. Your definition of free will isn't coherent and begs-begs-begs the question. "Because you chose B instead of A, you don't have free will, because we don't have free will." The level of thinking is abysmal, but you can't help it being a WASP genetic CUCK.

If you have enough money for either a chocolate A or chocolate B but not both, you choose one of them, you can choose out of your free will either of them. It is free will unless there is no choice. It's really simple and you retards can't get it.

I'm neither Anglo-Saxon nor religious, you Gypsy. You clearly haven't taken any university level courses on Free Will. You're talking about Freedom of Action, which, in strictly philosophical terms, is different than Free Will.

http://www.informationphilosopher.co...of_action.html

You're really angry for no reason. Maybe you're the cuck? Isn't wife sharing common in the Roma community?