Split from everywhere: the great "are Italians and Spaniards "white"" garbage bin thread

[Foxy]

Talking about skin : The gene SLC24A5 is found in 99.9% of Europeans (inlcuded the South) while it is not found in Africans, Asians, Native Americans. This gene is responsible for the White skin in Europeans.

I also read that every peoples in the world except Africans have 4-5% of neanderthal genes. Itr goes for Asians and Middle Easterns too, but not for the peoples of Africa. This was just for curiosity, I am not a genetist.

[Sahson]

[Curtis24]

argh this discussion is a fucking black hole

[Foxy]

argh this discussion is a fucking black hole

I am still waiting for am American fellow able to make me understand who the fuck is considered white and who is not in the US. In general, anyway, we speak of caucasian subjects, so every European is damn in the list. But if we want to speak of whiteness, well, I am waiting for some conclusions...

[Korbis]

Originally the term white in America was reserved exclusivelly for all the caucasian inmigrants of northern european and protestant stock. Thus the Irish and Italians wheren´t considered white at the beginning. It was - and still is a social construct. You don´t only have to look white but also behave like a W.A.S.P. In the most strict sense, a white guy who grew up speaking spanish is a latino and an Italian american is just...an Italian. The only thing which prevent them from join the white club is their culture and -maybe the accent.

[Foxy]

Originally the term white in America was reserved exclusivelly for all the caucasian inmigrants of northern european and protestant stock. Thus the Irish and Italians wheren´t considered white at the beginning. It was - and still is a social construct. You don´t only have to look white but also behave like a W.A.S.P.

White Anglo Saxon Protestant excludes every non-protestant and non-anglo saxon white. Where are the slavs, the romances, the germanics?? I think that Americans had to choose an other definition instead of "white". Say English, not?
Australians have been more intelligent, they define Australians of Anglo-celtic heritage "Aussies". This definition is better becouse does not offend the Australians of other heritages eluding part of their beeing. Saying that only WASPs are white offends 90% of Europe.

The strange thing is that if an Italian-American comes back to Italy he won't be considered Italian. We call them Italoamericani, but is an other thing.... in the middle, not fish nor flesh.

[Curtis24]

Americans consider any of the European races to be white. This includes North Europeans, Irish, Italians, Spanish, Slavs, etc. Blacks, Arabs/Mideasterners, East Asians, South Indians and AMerican Indians are not white, as are anyone who has significant admixture from any of those races.

Most Americans would think Nadal was white. You must not take my mistake thinking Nadal was part black as being indicative of all Americans.

It was - and still is a social construct. You don´t only have to look white but also behave like a W.A.S.P. In the most strict sense, a white guy who grew up speaking spanish is a latino and an Italian american is just...an Italian. The only thing which prevent them from join the white club is their culture and -maybe the accent.

This is not true. Americans' concept of race is physically based. For instance, Americans consider Obama to be "black" or "mulatto" even though he is socially white.

Furthermore, very few latinos in America are racially white. Most are predominately Amerindian, since the countries where most of them come from - Mexic, Central America - are overwhelmingly Amerindian. Those latinos who are racially white, Americans would consider white. Most Americans could easily distinguish a white Spaniard from an Amerindian Mexican, as the physical differences are easily apparent. The Spaniard would be white, the Amerindian Mexican not.

[San Galgano]

I am still waiting for am American fellow able to make me understand who the fuck is considered white and who is not in the US. In general, anyway, we speak of caucasian subjects, so every European is damn in the list. But if we want to speak of whiteness, well, I am waiting for some conclusions...

For what i have seen here and Youtube, it is not a social construct or a list apart for the bureaucracy fields.

It is more an elementary concept linked to provenience and skin.
If you are italian, spaniard, and to some extent french, you are not white.

If your skin is darker than a 99% white mulatto with blue eyes, you are not white.
If you are a sicilian you can be also like Dolph Lundgren, but you are not white.

That's how it works out of the bureaucracy field.

[Korbis]

Americans consider any of the European races to be white. This includes North Europeans, Irish, Italians, Spanish, Slavs, etc. Blacks, Arabs/Mideasterners, East Asians, South Indians and AMerican Indians are not white, as are anyone who has significant admixture from any of those races.

Most Americans would think Nadal was white. You must not take my mistake thinking Nadal was part black as being indicative of all Americans.



This is not true. Americans' concept of race is physically based. For instance, Americans consider Obama to be "black" or "mulatto" even though he is socially white.

Furthermore, very few latinos in America are racially white. Most are predominately Amerindian, since the countries where most of them come from - Mexic, Central America - are overwhelmingly Amerindian. Those latinos who are racially white, Americans would consider white. Most Americans could easily distinguish a white Spaniard from an Amerindian Mexican, as the physical differences are easily apparent. The Spaniard would be white, the Amerindian Mexican not.

Obama can´t pass for white because he´s a negro . I´m speaking about white people who sometimes seem to struggle to pass for white.

If Americans were so sure than Spaniards and non-northern or central europeans are white then threads like this wouldn´t be necessary. And believe me, there are loads over there.

Most comments ive seen in the net regard people like Antonio Banderas, Penelope Cruz, or even Bardem as latinos or mexicans - but ok, we must admit that those might deserve it since most of the time they act like beaners and display they fake tans for marketing purposes.

If i had a penny for everytime I heard or read that a spaniard who went to the States has been told that "you don´t look spanish.."....

I have the impression than most the old fashioned prejudices against non northern protestant white people are still very alive in the american psyche.

[Jack B]

I can't say I've ever noticed this hangup with southern Europeans' whiteness here in Ireland, it's just seen as a hotter part of Europe therefore they have darker skin (usually) I've personally never heard anyone here referring to Spaniards or Italians as non white.