What is more frequent in Argentina and Uruguay? Full Blood Spaniards or Full Blood Italians?

[Bell Beaker]

I know that Italian immigration to Argentina and Uruguay in the late XIX centuries and early XX centuries was Higher than the Spaniard one, but perhaps there were some demographic tendencies like there was in Brazil (Portuguese man married Portuguese woman more often than Italian man married Italian woman), that might have dropped the number of full blood Italians.........

[Argentano]

Talking about recent immigration

Argentina recieved more italians than spaniards,but not by a big margin, and italians had a higher return rate.
Uruguay recieved more spaniards than italians, but not by a big margin

IMO it must be pretty even.I am sharing with 169 argentines in 23andme and the fully iberian/italian are similar. The majority of the whites are a mix of both and not pure.

People get the idea that Argentina didnt recieve much spaniards, Because Argentina recieved a lot of Italians, but the truth is that Argentina was the biggest emigration destiny of spaniards in 1900. In fact the nr of spaniards in Argentina was just slightly lower than that of the italians living here.

Argentina 1869 Italians 71.403 Spaniards 34.068
Argentina 1895 Italians 492.636 Spaniards 198.685 (only period of significant difference)
Argentina 1914 Italians 942.209 Spaniards 841.149
Argentina 1947 Italians 786.207 Spaniards 749.392
Argentina 1960 Italians 878.298 Spaniards 715.685
Argentina 1970 Italians 637.050 Spaniards 514.500
Argentina 1980 Italians 488.271 Spaniards 373.984
Argentina 1990 Italians 329.894 Spaniards 226.029

Taking into account mortalities, we probably can sum 1869+1914+1980

Italians 1.501.883 Spaniards 1.249.201

There is a differences but its not abismal.

[Bell Beaker]

Talking about recent immigration

Argentina recieved more italians than spaniards,but not by a big margin, and italians had a higher return rate.
Uruguay recieved more spaniards than italians, but not by a big margin

IMO it must be pretty even.I am sharing with 169 argentines in 23andme and the fully iberian/italian are simiñar. The majority of the whites are a mix of both and not pure.

People get the idea that Argentina didnt recieve much spaniards, Because Argentina recieved a lot of Italians, but the truth is that Argentina was the biggest emigration destiny of spaniards in 1900. In fact the nr of spaniards in Argentina was just slightly lower than that of the italians living here.

Argentina 1895 Italians 492.636 Spaniards 198.685 (only period of significant difference)
Argentina 1914 Italians 942.209 Spaniards 841.149
Argentina 1947 Italians 786.207 Spaniards 749.392
Argentina 1960 Italians 878.298 Spaniards 715.685

Do you know if Argentina has some isolated Italian communities like Brazil has?

[Argentano]

Do you know if Argentina has some isolated Italian communities like Brazil has?

I think most isolated communities are of northern euro stock living in the interior of Argentina (south,northeast,northwest)

Italian isolated communities are not common. Think the following, in the whole 1869-1930 period 50% of buenos aires city was foreign born. If you include the immigrants children, it would be something like 70-80% foreign born. Of those 70-80% half or more was italian. Lets say 35-45% italian. Why would you make an isolated village when you are almost half the city/province?


Check this, surnames of football players (usually low class)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...ican-Countries




32% in a country of 43.000.000 people is A LOT

[JMack]

Do you know if Argentina has some isolated Italian communities like Brazil has?

I think that one of the biggest differences between Brazil and Latin American countries (yes, i don't think Brazil is a LA country) is this kind of 'immigration for colonization' like what happened in U.S, European groups establishing themselves in vast amounts of land and 'replicating' there their lifestyles and culture. Brazil is a very big country and in late XIXth century most of the territory was depopulated. In Americas this phenomenon is commom only in Brazil, USA and Canada. Certainly there is some places in Hispanic America in which it happened, but i think it's not that common in hispanic countries.

[Tobi]

I think most isolated communities are of northern euro stock living in the interior of Argentina (south,northeast,northwest)

Italian isolated communities are not common.

Really? That's just weird, because there are lots in Brazil. Only portugueses and also spaniards don't have their isolated communities here I'd say.

There is even a city in Rio Grande do Sul - Antonio Prado - wich is known as the more italian city in Brazil. Around 12,000 people of fully italian stock living there. It was a big isoleted community, but now is a city and got some migrants, people there can even spoke the language (forgot the dialect).

[Argentano]

Really? That's just weird, because there are lots in Brazil. Only portugueses and also spaniards don't have their isoleted communities here I'd say.

There is even a city in Rio Grande do Sul - Antonio Prado - wich is known as the more italian city in Brazil. Around 12,000 people of fully italian stock living there. It was a big isoleted community, but now is a city and got some migrants, people there can even spoke the language (forgot the dialect).

I think this has to do with the amount of immigrants Argentina recieved. In 1914 30% of the Argentine population was foreign born. It was probably around 45-50% taking into account their children. If they had isolted themselves then half of the country would have lived isolated from the other half which is completely nuts.

If you ask my grandparents who arrived to Buenos Aires in 1930-1950 they will tell you everybody was italian or spanish here.

[Tobi]

I think this has to do with the amount of immigrants Argentina recieved. In 1914 30% of the Argentine population was foreign born. It was probably around 45-50% taking into account their children. If they had isolted themselves then half of the country would have lived isolated from the other half which is completely nuts.

If you ask my grandparents who arrived to Buenos Aires in 1930-1950 they will tell you everybody was italian or spanish here.

Well, I don't think so, since those comminities are pretty common in places like Santa Catarina, Paraná, São Paulo and Rio Grande do Sul (and just in these ones). I would believe in it if the communities were in places like Pará or Bahia. The italians communities here are usually lombardians or venetinians, the rest just had assimilated quite well in brazilian society.

Maybe the italians in Argentina assimilated better than the ones in Brazil or they are not lombardians or venetians.

[Argentano]

Well, I don't think so, since those comminities are pretty common in places like Santa Catarina, Paraná, São Paulo and Rio Grande do Sul (and just in these ones). I would believe in it if the communities were in places like Pará or Bahia. The italians communities here are usually lombardians or venetinians, the rest just had assimilated quite well in brazilian society.

Maybe the italians in Argentina assimilated better than the ones in Brazil or they are not lombardians or venetians.

lombards and venetians are the ones who arrived earlier right?

[Tobi]

lombards and venetians are the ones who arrived earlier right?

Yes, the majority of isolated communities are of them.

My ex is from one community originally (the community is neighbouring my grandsfather's farm); they are lombardians, were very isolated untill the last generation like cousin marrying to cousin just to never mix with non-lombardians.