Evolutionary processes like balticization or alpinization...

[Tomasz]

There are many evolutionary processes that affect populations, gradually changing their racial image. These processes are adaptation to certain living conditions, climate, way of life and nutrition. To list few examples of such phenomenon: alpinization, balticization, borealization, dinaricization... There are many more but it's not my goal here to elaborate about it. For the sake of discussion (to not make this post extra-long), I will use two examples: alpinization and balticization. But questions I will ask in this topic apply to all those processes.

First of all, let's see what SNPA has to say about these two evolutionary tendencies:

Alpinization - an evolutionary process or tendency involving reduction, brachycephalization and infantilization, possibly an adaption to a low energy, sedentary existence. Some alpinized or partially alpinized Europid populations (Alpinoids), are Alpinid, Borreby and Gorid.

Balticization - evolutionary process involving reduction, infantilization, brachycephalization and gracilization. Balticization is similar to alpinization, but does not entail a similar degree of body reduction, and tends more towards borealization. Like alpinization, balticization may result partially from adaption to sedentary farmer life, but is mostly a response to a colder climate. More specifically, this tendency refers to the historical derivation of the Baltid types.

Now let's look at the definitions of two races which are effect of the processes we're talking about, namely Alpinid and Baltid.

Alpinid - Named by Ripley (Alpine), the Alpinid is an important western and central European Europid type, short- to medium-statured, brachycephalic, characteristically round-headed and -featured, broad-faced, and of intermediate to dark pigmentation. Alpinids predominate in central parts of France, and are common in southern Germany (especially Bavaria) and the Alps. The central European Alpinid is probably derived from Cro-Magnoids through a process of alpinization (cf. Borreby, Gorid).

Baltid - balticized northeastern European Cro-Magnoid (East-Cro-Magnid). Baltid (proper) assumes an intermediate position between mostly unreduced, only slightly balticized and fully Europid forms (West-Baltids) and more fully balticized and Lappoid-influenced forms (East-Baltids) in a continuum or cline which, in a broader and rougher sense, delineates the transition from Cro-Magnoid to Lappoid in northeastern Europe. The term may denote the entire range, and is used interchangeably for mostly un-balticized West-Baltids as well as strongly Lappoid-influenced East-Baltids. SNPA account here.

Now, let's take a look on what's written about how these types evolved. I bolded these fragments in the quotes.

As you can see, both types probably trace back their ancestry to Cromagnid form, similiar to present-day Phalian-Cromagnids (in case of Alpinids) or now extinct East-Cromagnids (in case of Baltids). Tu sum it up - both Alpinids and Baltids derive from Cromagnids.

Now, two questions rise because of this statement.

1) Is one process linked to only one race, id est is alpinization/balticization only affecting Cromagnids? Or Nordids (for example) can be also affected by this process?

2) If the answer to the first question is "no", then why populations with once very strong Nordid component (like ancient Slavs for example) gradually lost this Nordid predominance? Did Nordids balticized themselves if it's possible or balticized Cromagnids had reproductive success over Nordids?

Everyone is welcome to answer that, I also hope Agrippa will see this thread because I guess he knows the answer.

[Agrippa]

To begin with, most Alpinoids might be rather derived from dark Cromagnid variants, similar to Palaeatlantid in particular, but also Berberid - in North Africa regional Alpinisation can be observed too.

The standard development would go like this:
Palaeatlantid -> Berid (long headed but reduced) -> Westalpinid
or
archaic Cromagnoid -> Borreby -> Cromagno-Alpinoid -> Alpinid.

The same probably with Dinaro-Mediterranoid influences -> Gorid/Eastalpinid.

For the Baltisation:
archaic Cromagnoid -> Westbaltid -> Baltid.
with Mongoloid tendencies -> Eastbaltid.

1) Is one process linked to only one race, id est is alpinization/balticization only affecting Cromagnids? Or Nordids (for example) can be also affected by this process?

Rather than affecting types, it affects populations or population segments.

In this population segments, the Cromagnoid heritage dominates over the Taurid (Dinarid, Armenoid) or Aurignacoid (Nordid, Mediterranid, Orientalid, Indid), with which there is no to very little overlap to the process of Alpinisation or Baltisation.

So Cromagnoid elements must be present in this ancestral group - Aurignacoid ones in particular are rather antagonistic, because they develop in the opposite direction.

2) If the answer to the first question is "no", then why populations with once very strong Nordid component (like ancient Slavs for example) gradually lost this Nordid predominance? Did Nordids balticized themselves if it's possible or balticized Cromagnids had reproductive success over Nordids?

In the population, people with more Cromagnoid dominated traits, but of a reduced and Alpinised/Baltised nature, began to dominate, or better the genetic variants for it.

This element might have been present in the respective populations since thousands of years, but at a very low frequency, because its survival rates were rather low in the higher level individual and group selection, under more favourable living conditions and no extreme (for humans) r-selection.

As all these things changed, the other variants were successful too, but just not AS SUCCESSFUL, so from one generation to the next, the reduced-farmer variants had somewhat more surviving offspring in this society of dependent subjects.

Just remind you what kind of population explosion we had in Europe, so many people descending from so few - if some had just a slight advantage under this new conditions in the Feudal states and peasantry, they would soon dominate the population, or at least grow drastically in comparison to their former strength.

[Curtis24]

So alpinisation/baltisation are the results of natural selection, and not some mysterious mutation process whereby dolichocephals somehow become brachycephal.

[Agrippa]

So alpinisation/baltisation are the results of natural selection, and not some mysterious mutation process whereby dolichocephals somehow become brachycephal.

Since it seems that all archaic Homo sapiens were originally longheaded when entering Eurasia, especially Europe, this mutation must have taken place.

The question is just when.

But we see larger numbers, though still in minority, of meso-brachycephals at least, brachycephals here and there, in the Mesolithic time - usually of the larger, rather Borreby-like variety.

Actually, with the entrance of more progressive late Mesolithic and Neolithic, following Metal Age settlers, the proportion of shorter headed and broader faced (eurybrachymorph) variants drastically decreases and only increases, from then on, primarily in populations or subpopulations for which above roughly mentioned selective processes played a role - with a lack of higher level individual- and group selection.

F.e. more isolated, sedentary peasant societies.

Every genetically determined or influenced trait must have its origin somewhere in time and space - probably more than one even, but there must be one.

In the case of brachycephaly, I can't say when for West Eurasia, I can just say that latest in Mesolithic times, such genetic variants existed. They never disappeared since then, they just became associated with different other traits and changed frequency over time and space...

[Curtis24]

during the Middle AGes, is the rise of brachycephals due to dolicohocephals giving birth to brachycephal children, or is it due to brachcephals simply having more children than dolichocephals? this is what I meant by "mutation process", I probably misspoke(though your other post is very informative otherwise).

[Mordid]

Can headshape change, Agrippa ?

[Agrippa]

during the Middle AGes, is the rise of brachycephals due to dolicohocephals giving birth to brachycephal children, or is it due to brachcephals simply having more children than dolichocephals? this is what I meant by "mutation process", I probably misspoke(though your other post is very informative otherwise).

Primarily because brachycephals got more surviving children.

There are also environmental influences, so modification played a role too, but this is mostly allometric, which means it reflects the general status of the individiual's, especially nutritional and health status.

The healthier and better nourished an individual is, the taller and more long headed it becomes among Europids - RELATIVELY to THE SAME worse nourished and less healthy variant.

But in the case of Medieval Brachycephalisation, many traits were involved, some don't change as much due to that and of course, not as strong.

So the PRIMARY reasons for brachycephalisation and THE ONLY reason for real Baltisation and Alpinisation was SELECTION, those variants having more surviving children under the specific circumstances.

Can headshape change, Agrippa ?

Yes, in all cases, even through a lifetime, but it depends on what exactly do you mean.

The head index, Cephalic Index (CI) usually doesn't change significantly over a lifetime, unless we deal with pathological changes.

[Curtis24]

There are also environmental influences, so modification played a role too, but this is mostly allometric, which means it reflects the general status of the individiual's, especially nutritional and health status.

The healthier and better nourished an individual is, the taller and more long headed it becomes among Europids - RELATIVELY to THE SAME worse nourished and less healthy variant.

But in the case of Medieval Brachycephalisation, many traits were involved, some don't change as much due to that and of course, not as strong.

So the PRIMARY reasons for brachycephalisation and THE ONLY reason for real Baltisation and Alpinisation was SELECTION, those variants having more surviving children under the specific circumstances.

What other traits were involved? How can you tell the difference between a short-headed person who received poor nutrition, and one who is short-headed due to genetic traits? Couldn't the "alpinisation" seen in Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages just be poor nutrition?

[Agrippa]

What other traits were involved? How can you tell the difference between a short-headed person who received poor nutrition, and one who is short-headed due to genetic traits? Couldn't the "alpinisation" just be poor nutrition?

No, because the whole craniofacial trait combination changed with some very highly inheritable traits which don't change that fast, this was proven in the Polish material f.e. by - also the body proportions almost completely. Even the robustness and sexual dimorphism decreased significantly (J. Jelinek in I. Schwidetzky 1972). The very bad nourished LBK-people were shortish too, but not brachycephalic nor less robust in the Northern group and under very hard selection, so in a direct comparison, it is absolutely clear that we deal with a change of the genetic frequencies.

And of course, if it would be just environmental, you would have to expect that all individuals with the same modificational status are the same, THAT WAS NEVER THE CASE!

You could ALWAYS sort out deviating variants - at the time of the higher level individual- and group selection, better living conditions and higher K-selection more progressive leptodolichomorphs, but also, here and there, small groups and minorities of eurybrachymorphs even among them.

When the full scale Alpinisation and Baltisation started, you got also Dinarisation, which is a completely different trend, only brachycephalisation being the same, but otherwise almost at the opposite end of whats possible and of course the persistence of leptodolichomorphic variants in all social classes, just higher rates among those which were higher bred and better nourished.

The most simple proof is always whether all individuals were affected or not.
Looking at the facts, it is very clear that it was a shift inside of the population, caused by selective trends.

[Curtis24]

I agree with you, and did before this thread, I was just wondering what traits do distinguish a genuine "Alpinid" from a poorly nutritioned other subrace.