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Thread: Arguments Against the Existence of God

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    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
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    Default The Omnipotence Paradox

    The paradoxical question, "Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?" is a rather silly conundrum designed to show that the term omnipotent is actually meaningless.



    Omnipotent means "all-powerful", which is typically understood to mean "able to do anything". If God can do anything, then he should be able to create such a rock. But once the rock is created, he should also be able to lift it, which contradicts the first claim.
    This is reminiscent of a story about a medieval arms salesman who boasted that his sword was so sharp that it could penetrate any armor, and his shield was so tough that it could withstand any attack. A member of the crowd called out, "What happens when you strike your sword against your own shield?" The salesman was stumped.

    The answer is that the salesman was lying about one of his products. Or to put it another way, a perfect sword and a perfect shield cannot exist simultaneously. If there exists any sword that can penetrate all shields, then by definition there does not exist any shield that can withstand all attacks.
    Similarly, there cannot exist a rock that cannot be lifted in a universe that also contains a God who can lift anything. Yet this proves that there is something that God cannot create.

    How do we get out of the paradox? An atheist would answer that the very idea of being "all-powerful" is meaningless and not worthy of consideration in the real world. However, apologists often respond that "all-powerful" means "God can do everything... that is logically possible" (a common example given is that God can't create a square circle). This also is a limitation on God as if God is bound by logic, then he can't be the author of logic.
    As C.S. Lewis states in Mere Christianity:

    "His omnipotence includes power to do all that is intrinsically possible, not to do the intrinsically impossible. You may attribute miracles to Him, but not nonsense."

    This raises the question of what exactly a miracle is, if not doing the impossible. Of course, the qualifier intrinsically is an important one. Still, this seems to paint a picture of God as simply the most powerful being in the universe, instead of an all-powerful one.

    Also, God cannot improve himself since that would mean that he lacks a necessary attribute, although improvement is something which is logically possible to all human beings. Therefore, God is not omnipotent.

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    Default

    The existence of a God, or 300 gods, is a outdated man made concept once used, and still used by some, to explain our very existence.

    You don't see other species worry about these things as Man does, that's because Man evolved to what it is today and invented these things on the go. The human brain evolved and man became a thinking machine. As such the human brain is abused today, like everything else, by overthinking. The latter can be linked to modern problems that our society is facing such as depression and addiction.

    Today, our very existence has been explained through scientific research. Through the physical evidence one can gather without having to resort to the idea of something beyond the physical, for which there is no proof. Life happened through an accident. It's just a coincidence. And it wont last forever either.

    Yet the belief of a higher being and something more than the physical can still be seen today. This usually comes to comfort oneself and to give oneself a purpose of existence which else might lack after losing the drive and joy one once had as a child.

    To some people life just has no purpose, so they find comfort in religion or spirituality.

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    Veteran Member Hexachordia's Avatar
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    To all atheists: I have only one permanent problem about your theories, that is, I do not trust you.
    [IMG][/IMG]

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    The answer I usually have is simple; God doesn't care about us

    I gotta lot of fucking spite in me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexachordia View Post
    To all atheists: I have only one permanent problem about your theories, that is, I do not trust you.
    It's not about weather trusting an atheist or not. Rather: Can you trust your God or religion which is solely based on false hope and a comfort zone for the weak minded individuals/masses.

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    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
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    Occam's Razor (or Ockham's Razor) is the philosophical principle which states: entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity. It has been paraphrased in various forms:

    "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."
    "Out of several equally good explanations, pick the simplest one."
    "We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. Therefore, to the same natural effects we must, so far as possible, assign the same causes"
    — Isaac Newton

    "Whenever possible, substitute constructions out of known entities for inferences to unknown entities"
    — Bertrand Russell

    In this context, the word "simplest" means "the explanation that contains the fewest assumptions." Similarly, "equally good" refers to the ability of the explanation to account for the observation and not to the veracity of the explanation. Occam's Razor is one of the key principles of skepticism.

    Occam's Razor has perhaps less application to religion than is commonly assumed because religion is often not a predictive explanation. Therefore, any other predictive theory which is even remotely correct is considered better than a non-predictive religious explanation. Occam's Razor does apply in cases where God is needlessly invoked, such as with theistic evolution.

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    Veteran Member Hexachordia's Avatar
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    Atheists are just trying to do the gods jobs by denying peoples belief. Lets face a very foundamental reality about humanity, we can never really trust each other, Marx and his cronies have already honed the atheist rhetorics to the highest possible level I do not really see anyone to challenge their legacy, all atheists just fall into the stereotypical Marxism for me. I really do not care for humanity and I do not have the qualification to behavior like a devine being, but at least I will defend to freedom of speech and belief in order to set myself free from unwanted obligation into others businesses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MONEY View Post
    Can you trust your God or religion which is solely based on false hope and a comfort zone for the weak minded individuals/masses.
    Even the submicroscopic details of creation speak to you about God.
    The best way to show that a stick is crooked is not to argue about it or to spend time denouncing it, but lay a straight stick alongside it - Dwight L. Moody

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    Veteran Member Hexachordia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MONEY View Post
    It's not about weather trusting an atheist or not. Rather: Can you trust your God or religion which is solely based on false hope and a comfort zone for the weak minded individuals/masses.
    I do not trust people, never, it is the reason why I support the development of science and freedom of belief. We see since the 19th century that science has become a tool of propagandas for atheist conspiracists contending for power. But none of them understand or respect science, what they were doing just conspiring for power and corruption. People should have learnt enough from history that people are not to be trust just for their denial of supernaturals. Science and religions are striving to become more and more free from political manipulations, this is a good trend, and such a trend supports truth and freedom of speech and belief. Nobody can deny anything for other people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Agapetos View Post
    Evil is an illusion
    .

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