Petros Agapetos about Armenia

[Armenian Bishop]

... The Armenian genocide took place between 1915 and 1918; the Ottoman Empire committed systematic killings, deportations, and forced displacement of the (predominantly Christian) Armenian population, resulting in the deaths of 1 to 1.5 million people ...

Many scholars assert that the Armenian Genocide wasn't confined to World War I (1915-1918), but went on some years after the war (1915-1923), under the watch of Kemal Ataturk, the Bolsheviks, and the Azeri-Turks (also known as Caucasian Tatars). The case can be made that the Hamidian Massacres (1894-1896) and the Adana Massacre (1909), aren't separate or distinct from the later 1915 Genocide. The case can be made, because none of them were isolated massacres, rather they composed a state managed agenda of premeditated genocide.

[Petros Agapetos]

Many scholars assert that the Armenian Genocide wasn't confined to World War I (1915-1918), but went on for some years after the war (1915-1923), under the watch of Kemal Ataturk, the Bolsheviks, and the Azeri-Turks (also known as Caucasian Tatars). It's debatable that the Hamidian Massacres (1894-1896) and the Adana Massacre (1909), could be bundled together with the later genocide events, because they too weren't isolated massacres, but a premeditated state agenda to eliminate its Christian minorities.

Oh my God, so why do people only quote 1.5 million. What is the total amount of Armenians lost to the Turkish savages?
And yet some Turks still have the gaul to insult the memory of the innocent victims by all kinds of thuggish tactics, including disinformation and misinformation, and propaganda.

[Armenian Bishop]

Oh my God, so why do people only quote 1.5 million. What is the total amount of Armenians lost to the Turkish savages?
And yet some Turks still have the gaul to insult the memory of the innocent victims by all kinds of thuggish tactics, including disinformation and misinformation, and propaganda.

The government funded Turkish lobby has resorted to blackmail & bribery, as well as the usual genocide denial strategies. In 2009, FBI Translator Sibel Edmonds provided courtroom testimony about Turkish agents involved in blackmailing a U.S. Congresswoman.

From her courtroom testimony:

Turkish agents started gathering information on her, and they found out that she was bisexual." A female Turkish agent is said to have "struck up a relationship with her", and then, following the death of Schakowsky's mother, the woman is said to have attended the funeral "hoping to exploit her vulnerability."

"They later were intimate in Schakowsky's townhouse," Edmonds tells Giraldi, "which had been set up with recording devices and hidden cameras."

The reason for attempting to get at Schakowsky, Edmonds believes, is so that they would be able to get both her "and her husband Robert Creamer to perform certain illegal operational facilitations for them in Illinois," along with Hastert, who was already on the payroll, and several other Chicago officials.

http://gawker.com/5364536/did-this-c...-a-turkish-spy

[Petros Agapetos]

Bullies and thugs keep telling us 'keep quiet or it will be worse for you'. And of course the only proper response is to speak out and to resist and not be quiet and make life as uncomfortable for the bully as possible by good old fashioned techniques of peer pressure and public shaming.

[Petros Agapetos]

Users, what do you think of Armenia, the country, the people, and the language?

[Petros Agapetos]

What do you think of Armenian people?

[adsız]

Lies, Damn Lies, and Armenian Deaths

Bruce Fein
Constitutional Lawyer and Author
07/05/2009 05:12 am ET | Updated May 25, 2011

To paraphrase Mark Twain, there are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and the number of Armenians who are claimed by Armenians and their echo chambers to have died in an alleged World War I genocide. Almost a century later, the number of deaths they assert oscillates between 1.5-2 million. But the best contemporary estimates by Armenians or their sympathizers were 300,000-750,000 (compared with 2.4 million Ottoman Muslim deaths in Anatolia). Further, not a single one of those deaths necessarily falls within the definition of genocide in the authoritative Genocide Convention of 1948. It requires proof that the accused was responsible for the physical destruction of a group in whole or in substantial part specifically because of their race, nationality, religion, or ethnicity. A political or military motivation for a death falls outside the definition.

Immediately after the war, when events and memories were fresh, Armenians had no incentive to concoct high casualty figures or genocidal motivations for their deaths. Their objective was statehood. Armenians were encouraged by the self-determination concept in President Woodrow Wilson’s Fourteen Points, (while conveniently forgetting that they were a minority in Eastern Anatolia where they hoped to found a new nation). Armenian leaders pointed to their military contribution to defeating the Ottomans and population figures that would sustain an Armenian nation.

Boghus Nubar, then Head of the Armenian Delegation to the Paris Peace Conference (1919), wrote to the French Foreign Minister Stephen Pichon: “The Armenians have been, since the beginning of the war, de facto belligerents, as you yourself have acknowledged, since they have fought alongside the Allies on all fronts, enduring heavy sacrifices and great suffering for the sake of their unshakable attachment to the cause of the Entente....” Nubar had earlier written to the Foreign Minister on October 29, 1918, that Armenians had earned their independence: “We have fought for it. We have poured out our blood for it without stint. Our people played a gallant part in the armies that won the victory.”

When their quest for statehood shipwrecked on the Treaty of Lausanne and annexation by the Soviet Union in 1921, Armenians revised their soundtrack to endorse a contrived genocide thesis. It seeks a “pound of flesh” from the Republic of Turkey in the form of recognition, reparations, and boundary changes. To make their case more convincing, Armenians hiked the number of deaths. They also altered their story line from having died as belligerents against the Turks to having perished like unarmed helpless lambs.

Vahan Vardapet, an Armenian cleric, estimated a prewar Ottoman Armenian population of 1.26 million. At the Peace Conference, Armenian leader Nubar stated that 280,000 remained in the Empire and 700,000 had emigrated elsewhere. Accepting those Armenian figures, the number of dead would be 280,000. George Montgomery of the Armenia-American Society estimated a prewar Armenian population of 1.4-1.6 million, and a casualty figure of 500,000 or less. Armenian Van Cardashian, in testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1919, placed the number of Armenian dead at 750,000, i.e., a prewar population of 1.5 million and a post-war figure of 750,000.

After statehood was lost, Armenians turned to their genocide playbook which exploited Christian bigotries and contempt for Ottoman Muslims. They remembered earlier successful anti-Ottoman propaganda. United States Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire during the war, Henry Morganthau, was openly racist and devoted to propaganda. On November 26, 1917, Morgenthau confessed in a letter to President Wilson that he intended to write a book vilifying Turks and Germans to, “win a victory for the war policy of the government.” In his biography, “Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story,” Morgenthau betrays his racist hatred toward Turks (“humanity and civilization never for a moment enters their mind”) and unconditional admiration for Armenians (“They are so superior to the Turks intellectually and morally.”).

British Prime Minister Gladstone’s histrionic figure of 60,000 Bulgarian Christians slaughtered in 1876 captured the imagination of the west. The true figure later provided by a British Ambassador was 3,500—including Turks who were first slain by the Christians.

From 280,000-750,000, Armenians initially raised their death count to 800,000 to test the credibility waters. It passed muster with uninformed politicians easily influenced by campaign contributions and voting clout. Armenians then jumped the number to 1.5 million, and then 1.8 million by Armenian historian Kevork Aslan. For the last decades, an Armenian majority seems to have settled on the 1.5 million death plateau—which still exceeds their contemporary estimates by 200 to 500 percent. They are now testing the waters at 2.5-3 million killed as their chances for a congressional genocide resolution recede. It speaks volumes that champions of the inflated death figures have no explanation for why Armenians on the scene would have erred. Think of the absurdity of discarding the current death count of Afghan civilians in the United States-Afghan war in favor of a number deduced in the year 2109!

Armenians have a genuine tale of woe. It largely overlaps with the tale of tragedy and suffering that can be told by Ottoman Muslims during the war years: 2.4 million deaths in Anatolia, ethnic cleansing, starvation, malnutrition, untreated epidemics, and traumatic privations of war under a decrepit and collapsing Empire.

Unskewed historical truth is the antechamber of Turkish-Armenian reconciliation. That is why the Government of Turkey has proposed an international commission of impartial and independent experts with access to all relevant archives to determine the number and characterization of World War I deaths. Armenians are balking because they are skeptical of their own figures and accusations.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-..._b_211408.html

[Armenian Bishop]

Lies, Damn Lies, and Armenian Deaths

Bruce Fein
Constitutional Lawyer and Author
07/05/2009 05:12 am ET | Updated May 25, 2011

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-..._b_211408.html

Bruce Fein is on the payroll of Turkish Lobbies. He serves as a legal representative for the Turkish Coalition of America (TCA), the Turkish American Legal Defense Fund (TALDF), the Assembly of Turkish American Associations (ATAA), and it wouldn't surprise me to find that he represents other Turkish Lobby Groups (given his track record). He's a SpinDoctor, who twists historical realities to suit the vested interests of the Turkish Government. It's no different than for a farmer to put the fox in charge of the henhouse.

The Revered Bruce Fein & Foreign Lobby Dollars in the Form of Illegal Payment of Legal Bills.
Published by NewsBud, 24 August, 2011, and authored by Sibel Edmonds.

http://www.newsbud.com/2011/08/24/re...lobby-payment/

I’ve been meaning to write about this for weeks, and just got around doing it. Maybe the subconscious procrastination was due to the conscious sanitization of this news by venues like this. Maybe it was the dread of having to tackle one of the quasi media phony darlings like this guy. Or maybe it was the repressed exhaustion-frustration I went through a couple of years back with this. Okay, allow me to start with the fairly recent development reported ‘incompletely and badly’ by the New York Times:

Representative Jean Schmidt, Republican of Ohio, has been ordered by the House Ethics Committee to repay a Turkish-American group $500,000 for legal services it improperly paid for to help her pursue a defamation lawsuit and other legal proceedings against a Democratic opponent in the 2008 election.

As you can see, very consciously the Times avoids naming ‘that Democratic opponent.’ Because naming him, David Krikorian, would require some fact citing and more context-background on the case; the case they together with the rest of the mainstream media went out of their way to black out. And doing ‘that’ would God forbid bring up the long-blacked-out state secrets privilege in my case. And ‘that’ my dear friends, is something that has been forbidden to these stenographers in the media circus.

So let’s continue the no-coverage coverage of a very significant case involving Congresswoman Jean Schmidt and the twisted and rechanneled Turkish Foreign Lobby dollars:

The action by the House committee, disclosed Friday, did not come with a formal punishment, because ethics investigators concluded that Ms. Schmidt had been misled by her own lawyers from the Turkish American Legal Defense Fund about who was paying the legal bills.

Ms. Schmidt was ordered to amend her annual personal financial disclosure reports to acknowledge the gift from the Turkish Coalition of America, which actually paid the bills, and then reimburse the lawyers.

The report above casually, and very quickly, glosses over one of the implicated, that is, directly implicated, parties in this case: Schmidt’s lawyer- the lawyer who supposedly, and intentionally, misled his client, and did so with a dollar amount not in the thousands, but actually half a million dollars. Ordinarily this slip by a government garbage disposal facility like the Times would not raise big flags. However, this lawyer is no ordinary lawyer. The lawyer in question here happens to be a famous, very public, high-profile and very deviously and shrewdly marketed man. The lawyer in this case is none other than deceivingly perceived Bruce Fein. A man who has gotten very wealthy thanks to the foreign lobby, in this case the Turkish lobby in need of a man who knows the maze that gets the cheese to the congressional mice:

In 2007, Ayasli transferred $30 million in stock to fund a new endeavor, the nonprofit Turkish Coalition of America. The organization is headquartered in a Washington suite that has also been listed as the address for the Turkish Coalition USA PAC, the lobbying firm of Lydia Borland (who has represented the Turkish government), and the law firm of Bruce Fein and Associates (Fein comprises half of the Turkish American Legal Defense Fund).

In addition to the advocacy done through the ATC (which also funds trips to Turkey for congressional staff), a handful of its members--Citigroup, BAE Systems, Northrop Grumman, Chevron, Textron, United Technologies, Lockheed Martin and Raytheon, which spent a combined $80 million lobbying Washington last year lobbied Congress directly on the genocide resolution and other issues important to Turkey; the Aerospace Industries Association, a trade group, helped coordinate the effort.

Oh wait, Bruce Fein is married to Mattie Fein, the Republican candidate who ran against Jane Harman in 2010. Had she won, how would one go about calculating and deducting her campaign-donation ‘gifts’ from her husbands million-dollar foreign lobby gifts? Isn’t it interesting? And as far as Turkey’s former partner lobby, the Israeli Lobby, this is where Bruce & his voluptuous wife stand when given the Zionism litmus test:

7. Would you support Israel taking military action to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons? Under what circumstances?

The United States should support whatever Israel believes is justified by national security worries over Iran.

I know Mr. Fein has many pro-liberties fans out there who are mistaking him for ‘real;’ some consider him a real constitutionalist who stands for liberties and against secrecy. That’s very similar to those who fell for Obama the constitutionalist. Remember, Obama the author of a very constitutional book? Recall the beautiful words spoken and sold as pro liberties, pro change, anti secrecy and beyond? Well, you have a similar situation with Mr. Fein: he talks a good talk, and writes well. As for who Mr. Fein is: you are looking at a man long succumbed to foreign lobby and military industrial complex lobby dollars. You are looking at a man far more loyal to Israel and its lobby than to our nation. You actually have a man who believes any war would be justified for the sake of Israel. And in the latest Schmidt case you are looking at a man who helped funnel half a million dollar foreign ‘Bakshish’ to his congresswoman friend, and even indicted by the lame Congressional Ethics Committee as an attorney who intentionally misled his client.

Yet, you see none of this in the New York Times coverage. These points are intentionally omitted in mainstream media reports. Just as they were during my case-a topic that threatened corrupt US officials, MIC and Foreign lobbies.

I think I have made the case for the intentional black out and modification of this development by the US media. I am going to stop here, but you can read and watch more on this here.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

I dont really know anything about armenia except they once had nation and that they were genocided by turks. Thats all I know and that many are Christians.

[JeSB]

Turks have committed massacres against Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrians, since time imemorial. It's almost as if it is in their culture or perhaps even in their genes, who knows, I am not a scientist, but I am a naturalist, there must be some natural explanation of their inhumanity, savagery, thuggery, and barbarism. I blame the political ideology of jihad, sharia, and dhimma, in the Turkish persecution of Christians. I am unique in this position. Most Armenians would not generalize over all of Islam as I do. Most Armenians would only blame the Turks, and Islam isn't even mentioned or considered as a possible factor.

Part of the reason why I opened this thread is that I wanted to know whether my understanding of the Armenian Genocide is accurate. And whether I am blaming the right people justifiably. I don't want to accuse innocent people.

You're a legit imbecille.
I mean, I already knew how obtuse you were judging from your posting history, but now you've essentially proven you are bereft of common sense (unable to logically derive sound conclusions from the existing information), thereby proving you are an imbecille.

The massacres on ethnic minorities, Armenian and Assyrian chiefly, were perpetrated under the auspices and orders of donmeh converts who were full-blown supporters of Jacobinism and the hardcore secular nationalism it creates, which ironically you actually support, even if tacitly, by fawning over the Enlightenment and the products. In the 1913 census of the Ottoman Empire, about 1/4 people were Christians who while not having the same sociopolitical benefits of the Muslim population weren't being anyhow displaced or murdered.
This is a point that is not only known to a subset of Turkish historians, but also to Western historians who bother to take a minute to study the topic can identify easily. The same masonic influence that led to the creation of the Turkish republic, was the same origin of the ethnic cleansing done in Anatolia in the early XX Century.

Read Youssef Hindi or something: http://le-blog-sam-la-touch.over-blo...dogan-asi.html

Or better yet, shut up and only speak when needed. Good life lesson.