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Thread: Same sex marriage - Arguments for and against

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    Do you support same sex marriage?
    What reasons do you give?
    What justification do you have for having the beliefs that you do?
    Are you open to change your mind on this issue?
    What is it that can change your current position on the question: scientific evidence, philosophical argument, persuasive reasons, etc.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Agapetos View Post
    Do you support same sex marriage?
    What reasons do you give?
    What justification do you have for having the beliefs that you do?
    Are you open to change your mind on this issue?
    What is it that can change your current position on the question: scientific evidence, philosophical argument, persuasive reasons, etc.?
    Are you talking to me?

    I don't really care.

  3. #43
    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
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    Homosexuality is unnatural

    Apologists sometimes assert that homosexuality is unnatural or "against nature". This is the position of most Christian denominations and mainstream Islam. Apologist Kirk Cameron called homosexuality "unnatural, detrimental, and destructive".

    "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:"
    — Romans 1:26

    While it is more common for arguments to be made from other religious scriptures, religious critics have argued that homosexuality is unnatural because of magnetic attraction. Family Research Council President Tony Perkins claimed that normalizing homosexuality could cause the extinction of humans.

    Even if homosexuality were unnatural or "abnormal", it does not logically follow that it is bad. This is an instance of the moralistic fallacy, an appeal to nature, as well as the is-ought problem. Instead, one would still need to show, why homosexuality itself is bad. And once you shift the argument to the alleged bad effects of homosexuality, the fact whether it is natural or unnatural does not add any additional value and loses its relevance.

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    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
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    The purpose of sex is procreation

    Apologists often argue that the purpose of sex is procreation and therefore should only be used for that purpose. The purpose of sex is allegedly defined as part of "God's plan".

    "The biological purpose of sex is children, just as the biological purpose of eating is to repair the body."
    — C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

    "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose."

    How apologists reliably know this is not stated. This also equivocates between "purpose" generally and "biological purpose", as if biology is the only context of purpose. He assumes that God's purpose should always be obeyed, which suffers from the is-ought problem. Additionally, he overlooks the biological mechanism of sexual pleasure, which also requires appropriate biological systems such as senses and a nervous system to experience it, and therefore also has a biological purpose.

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    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
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    Homosexuality is a choice

    Some Christians maintain that people have a choice as to being homosexual or heterosexual. Choice is a dogmatic necessity because many apologists regard homosexuality as sinful, which necessarily implies it is a choice.

    "You can deny it all you want to but I believe in the word of God. And God creates nobody in that way. It's a path that you have chosen."

    82% of American Protestant ministers agree with "homosexuality is a choice people make

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    Can you stop spamming?

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    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
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    Counter-arguments
    The discovery of homosexuality in many thousands of other species including goats and penguins, and even our closest relatives the bonobos and chimpanzees, has shown that homosexuality most likely isn't a choice, but rather something a person is born with. Homosexuality existing in many animal species suggesting it has some evolutionary origin (or at least it is not detrimental to species survival). The threat of extinction from homosexuality is exaggerated with only a small minority having such tendencies.

    Researchers have also found evidence that hormones present in the womb effect the development of a fetus and may play a role in development of homosexuality.

    An easy counter to the idea of sexuality being a choice is telling people (usually heterosexual ones) to choose to become gay for a few days, or at the very least "shut down their straight urges", since it's supposedly possible.

    The idea that "Normalizing homosexuality will cause the extinction of humans" assumes baselessly that the entire human race will one day be composed of only homosexuals. Also, if the only reason people should exist is to bear more children (Disregarding the many orphaned children no one cares for), then something should also be done about infertile people of any sexuality.

    "It has been known that homosexuality can run in families. If one of a set of identical twins is gay, there’s a 20% chance that the other will be, too."

    In addition to relating to biological naturalness, the claim that homosexuality is unnatural (or "abnormal") may also be used to denote a deviation in behavior from the majority, or the norms of a society. To counter this argument, one just needs to slightly change the scope: it is natural for a society to include a certain amount of people who are homosexual, just as it natural for there to be a certain amount of people who are left-handed (Coincidentally, Left-Handed people were demonized in the Dark Ages).

    If God (also taking in account Which god?) or absolute morality exists, we cannot reliably know his intentions. We therefore cannot use this as a basis for homosexuality's alleged unnaturalness.

    Those claiming that "God doesn't create people flawed" forget: 1 - people born with physical handicaps and mental illnesses. 2 - (regarding the Abrahamic god) how the dogma states that everyone's born flawed because of the Fall and needs salvation.
    Arguments from magnetism is an argument from analogy. However, it is still needs to be shown if the analogy is valid.
    Romans 1:26-27 Bible-icon.png describes clearly how God himself made people homosexual. This passage could also be a reference to idol worship and prostitution, due to the context of the preceding passages.

    A study of sexual activities performed by gay men found that anal sex was actually rare (34-36%). Almost half of straight women have tried anal sex. This statistics demolish common stereotypes of behavior.

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    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etain View Post
    Can you stop spamming?
    It is a nice way to bump the thread.
    I am just including some information for you guys to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strasser-ue View Post
    Are you talking to me?

    I don't really care.
    You don't care about the arguments for and against homosexuality?
    I thought you were a homosexual.
    I am straight, and I support gay rights. And the way to do that, I think, is to argue your way to the best possible position.

    What do you think of this thread that I opened and the information in it? Do you not find it useful?
    I am simply empowering progressive voices on TA to support equality of rights by pointing out fallacious reasoning employed against the rights of gay people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Agapetos View Post
    You don't care about the arguments for and against homosexuality?
    I thought you were a homosexual.
    I am straight, and I support gay rights. And the way to do that, I think, is to argue your way to the best possible position.

    What do you think of this thread that I opened and the information in it? Do you not find it useful?
    I am simply empowering progressive voices on TA to support equality of rights by pointing out fallacious reasoning employed against the rights of gay people.
    My AncestryDNA autosomal results [yes it is a link click on it]
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