Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20

Thread: Secular Morality

  1. #11
    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Last Online
    05-22-2023 @ 01:22 AM
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Meta-Ethnicity
    East Caucasian
    Ethnicity
    Armenian
    Country
    Canada
    Region
    Alberta
    Taxonomy
    East Alpine - East Med
    Politics
    Secular Liberal, Progressive Leftist
    Hero
    Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Robert Spencer, Bernie Sanders, Atheism-is-Unstoppable
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    4,074
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,051
    Given: 756

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    bump

  2. #12
    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Last Online
    05-22-2023 @ 01:22 AM
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Meta-Ethnicity
    East Caucasian
    Ethnicity
    Armenian
    Country
    Canada
    Region
    Alberta
    Taxonomy
    East Alpine - East Med
    Politics
    Secular Liberal, Progressive Leftist
    Hero
    Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Robert Spencer, Bernie Sanders, Atheism-is-Unstoppable
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    4,074
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,051
    Given: 756

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    What do you think of secular ethics?

  3. #13
    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Last Online
    05-22-2023 @ 01:22 AM
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Meta-Ethnicity
    East Caucasian
    Ethnicity
    Armenian
    Country
    Canada
    Region
    Alberta
    Taxonomy
    East Alpine - East Med
    Politics
    Secular Liberal, Progressive Leftist
    Hero
    Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Robert Spencer, Bernie Sanders, Atheism-is-Unstoppable
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    4,074
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,051
    Given: 756

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    How science can answer moral questions

    Sam Harris points out we show greater concern for the well-being of primates than rocks or ants. He suggests this is due to their greater capacity for happiness and suffering. He claims all moral systems are a concern for life capable of conscious experience. Religious morality still contains this notion by its concept of the afterlife filled with happiness or suffering. He outlines a continuum of experience between suffering, such as life in a failed state, to happiness in a more stable, enlightened society, such as the developed world. Actions can be judged by their effect on human life on this continuum.

    "Values are a certain kind of fact. They are facts about the well-being of conscious creatures."

    He speculates that the continuum or space of human experience has not been fully explored and may contain poorly understood areas, some might be known as "mystical experience". Different societal and experiential inputs change our brain and result in changes. The possibility of equally good but different societies is admitted by Harris. He cites corporal punishment in the US, being justified religiously, but may be judged based on educational outcomes.Answering his critics that moral progress is undefined (resulting in moral scepticism or Loki's wager), Sam Harris uses the analogy of physical health still being meaningful while still being poorly defined and open to revision. He also compares morality to chess strategy: normally loosing the queen is disastrous, but sometimes it's brilliant play. In a similar way, there are bad social policies that are clearly wrong such as acid thrown in the face of woman who refuse to wear certain clothing. In a juxtaposition to Islamic women's clothing, he criticizes Western pornography based on a concern for women and children.

    Harris notes that Western civilization is not perfect and there are many more possible non-perfect societies than perfect ones.While many academics are moral relativists, Harris agrees with the moral realism of theism. He criticised theist morals of their moral code having an imaginary basis.

    "We need a universal conception of human values [...] How have we convinced ourselves that in the moral sphere that there is no such thing as moral expertise? or moral talent? or moral genius?"

    Harris argues that all existing moral systems are based on concern for life capable of conscious experience. He uses this as the general basis for his moral continuum or space. However, this is possibly a hasty generalization and definitely an appeal to the majority. We might base morality on some other criteria and not on conscious experience.He does not attempt to address the is-ought problem in the talk. He later addressed the issue by claiming he does not use reason and evidence exclusively but uses some value judgments as premises:

    "I have just assumed that well-being is a value, and this move is both unscientific and question-begging. [...] the same can be said about medicine, or science as a whole. As I point out in my book, science in based on values that must be presupposed [...] Our "oughts" are built right into the foundations. We need not apologize for pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps in this way."

    From this, the argument reduces to a common sense argument to avoid "bad" things while evaluating choices based on evidence. This is also called evidence-based decision-making. This raises the question of what to do to people who do not agree with this moral standard.The specific details of his moral continuum or space is established by various appeals to emotion (sympathy for Muslim women forced to wear the burka), appeal to consequences (we would be better off), arguing we are "mature" enough to know this information already (effectively begging the question) and appealing for us to think of the children. How we can establish the range of human experiences, being the basis for our self-concern, is not established. By some standards, dolphins might be more "conscious" and therefore it might be more important to benefit dolphins than humans.He criticized intellectuals for being moral relativists but did not establish that they are wrong. One does not need assurance of an absolute morality to criticize other cultures or to take controversial actions. His analogy of physical fitness is incorrect since the vast majority of people can distinguish between a very health person and a dead body. However, ethical systems often disagree as to what constitutes maximally "good" and maximally "bad". The chess analogy is also incorrect because chess has an set outcome but morality has no absolute standards needed to "win" at ethical behavior (although it does suit his position on moral realism).A practical objection, that also applies to utilitarianism, is that it is difficult to select and evaluate policy because different circumstances mean policies must be adapted and the resources to evaluate the effect of policies are not necessarily available.

  4. #14
    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Last Online
    05-22-2023 @ 01:22 AM
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Meta-Ethnicity
    East Caucasian
    Ethnicity
    Armenian
    Country
    Canada
    Region
    Alberta
    Taxonomy
    East Alpine - East Med
    Politics
    Secular Liberal, Progressive Leftist
    Hero
    Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Robert Spencer, Bernie Sanders, Atheism-is-Unstoppable
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    4,074
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,051
    Given: 756

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Members, are you secular humanists?

  5. #15
    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Last Online
    05-22-2023 @ 01:22 AM
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Meta-Ethnicity
    East Caucasian
    Ethnicity
    Armenian
    Country
    Canada
    Region
    Alberta
    Taxonomy
    East Alpine - East Med
    Politics
    Secular Liberal, Progressive Leftist
    Hero
    Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Robert Spencer, Bernie Sanders, Atheism-is-Unstoppable
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    4,074
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,051
    Given: 756

    0 Not allowed!

    Default


  6. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Last Online
    03-22-2019 @ 07:44 AM
    Location
    The matrix
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Doggatronix Rex
    Ethnicity
    alien
    Ancestry
    DadsMTDNA-rare bantu. X chromosome- Llama peoples.iberian & gallician fags. Berbers & canarians
    Country
    Spain
    Region
    Amazigh
    Y-DNA
    Neolithic eastern mediterranean
    mtDNA
    Noble natives
    Hero
    RossFractal(wise bearded one) https://s2.postimg.org/6uxdm1czd/bandicam_2017-08-05_01-21-16-584.jpg
    Religion
    Infidel
    Age
    1
    Gender
    Posts
    9,374
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 3,848
    Given: 3,647

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    im secular humanists. Anyone can have morals. Some morals are different then others though

  7. #17
    Life is good.
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Gooding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Online
    02-06-2022 @ 11:34 PM
    Location
    Virginia
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celto- Germanic
    Ethnicity
    Colonial American
    Ancestry
    English, Scots- Irish, Cajun French
    Country
    United States
    Region
    Virginia
    Y-DNA
    I1- Z63
    mtDNA
    K2b1b
    Taxonomy
    Brunn, Kelto- Nordid
    Politics
    Center
    Hero
    Martin Luther, Martin Chemnitz
    Religion
    Lutheran Christian
    Age
    44
    Gender
    Posts
    7,122
    Blog Entries
    25
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 6,664
    Given: 10,470

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Ethics are ethics. Secular ethics are just as binding as ethics tied to a religious point of view.

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Last Online
    03-05-2018 @ 12:35 AM
    Ethnicity
    Ülülü
    Ancestry
    Illyrian
    Country
    Macedonia
    Region
    Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality
    Politics
    Necessarily Ominous
    Hero
    Angra Mahin'yu
    Religion
    Rosacrucian
    Gender
    Posts
    1,962
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,987
    Given: 5,521

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Agapetos View Post
    How moral are atheists?

    There are good people and bad people among atheists as there are good and bad people in all communities.

    Christian stereotyping

    If there is no god you have no morals.
    A man without God is totally depraved.

    The quotes above are from a video of 2 Christians, they are likely to impress more gullible believers.
    See Christian Bullshit :- Atheists are Satanic.

    Unfortunately Christian stereotyping sometimes influences impressionable atheists and they assume that because they are atheists they can’t be moral or can’t be very moral. Youngsters whose characters have not fully developed yet are most vulnerable to negative stereotyping of this type. Liberal Christians rarely do this but Christian fundamentalists stereotype atheists more often. See How stereotyping atheists as immoral can do harm

    One particularly nasty technique that Christian evangelists sometimes use is deliberately provoking atheists or perhaps others they want to convert into doing something wrong/many wrong things. Then they say something like, "There! See how bad you are! You need Jesus!" If conversion attempts are successful probably the wrong things the person did/was provoked into doing before conversion will be regularly used to make that person feel guilty and inferior so the leaders of the group can keep the sinner under control.
    Define "good" and "bad". All the "commandments" (it is fucking hilarious you even refer to them this way instead of 'principles' or 'values'! I hope the sense of irony isn't lost in you) sound like bullshit you'd find in a bad cartoon. "Goodz", "evilz", "luvz", "just be yurself", only to finally contradict itself by saying "always question everything" and "Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience". If this truly was the intention, there would be no need to label any of this as commandments, or to offer a poor man's imitation of the format of the bible.

  9. #19
    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Last Online
    05-22-2023 @ 01:22 AM
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Meta-Ethnicity
    East Caucasian
    Ethnicity
    Armenian
    Country
    Canada
    Region
    Alberta
    Taxonomy
    East Alpine - East Med
    Politics
    Secular Liberal, Progressive Leftist
    Hero
    Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Robert Spencer, Bernie Sanders, Atheism-is-Unstoppable
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    4,074
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,051
    Given: 756

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    The conversations about morality are usually muddled by religionists' fallacies to the point that we can't even agree what it is that we are talking about. There is confusion about whether we are talking about morals or ethics, where morality comes from and why we care about any of this. Generally, I think that what we are talking about is how can go about thriving in the world recognizing the impact our actions have on ourselves and other people. Morality is about choosing the best course of action. For secular ethics, reality is the ultimate arbiter of what's right and wrong. We are physical beings in a physical universe, and there are truths to be discovered about our place in it. Reality dictates what the consequences of actions will have, and this should be sufficient for a moral reference frame: well-being, human flourishing, and progress. And it is not just about evaluating consequences, because motivation and intention also figure into our moral calculus because they colour our actions. The world is robust, we are living in a dynamic universe and what we need to do is regard each situation individually on its own merits and create generalized assessments of actions which we can then use as a litmus test to evaluate other situations.

  10. #20
    Senior Member denz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Online
    11-22-2022 @ 05:40 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Turkic
    Ethnicity
    Turk
    Country
    Turkey
    Y-DNA
    -
    mtDNA
    -
    Religion
    -
    Gender
    Posts
    834
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 334
    Given: 338

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Agapetos View Post
    Members, are you secular humanists?
    Humanism which believes personal freedom and equality is the singular form of socialism. Humanism from liberal propagandists and/or socialism as well do not match with us. Let say, this millenium national socialism and socialism have collapsed as liberalism is going to fail.

    On the other hand, yes secularism is one way to create better society.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Secular Humanism vs. Religion
    By Petros Agapetos in forum Politics & Ideology
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-23-2019, 05:12 AM
  2. Christian Morality
    By Petros Agapetos in forum Christianity
    Replies: 96
    Last Post: 12-28-2016, 01:01 PM
  3. Is Modern Armenia (2016) a Secular Country?
    By Petros Agapetos in forum Armenia
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 12-22-2016, 02:57 AM
  4. Is Modern Greece a Secular Country? Poll!
    By Petros Agapetos in forum Ελλάδα
    Replies: 81
    Last Post: 12-12-2016, 09:58 PM
  5. What is Morality?
    By Petros Agapetos in forum Philosophy
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 12-12-2016, 06:35 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •