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Thread: Are Portuguese just Spaniards?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laberia View Post
    This conclusion are results of nationalism of XIX century. But the story of Peninsula is not just an century.
    For example i have read an quote from Luís Vaz de Camões:

    Falai de castelhanos e portugueses, porque espanhóis somos todos

    Speak about Castillians and Portugueses, because we are all Spaniards. (Luis Vaz de Camoes, 1524 - 1580)

    The original verse doesn't say Spaniards but Hispanos, an reference to Roman Hispania, the name that Romans gave to the Iberian Peninsula. In that sense we are all from Hispania.

    Edit: Endovélico was quicker
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    Senior Member Arjana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endovélico View Post
    Christian kingdoms emerged with the christian reconquest. Portugal was one of those kingdoms and it separated from the kingdom of Leon and became independent in 1143.
    A map of Europe from 1250 will have Portugal with its full borders as it has now, making it one of the oldest in Europe:



    The language is most similar to galician but it evolved separately so now it's slightly different, and genetically there is overlap with nearby spaniards.

    So the answer is no.
    I think this map is not quiet accurate because the borders in Balkans are totally wrong about the years 1250 at least and is lacking the universities in the cities of Durres and Janina.

    Also to much universities are shown in Balkans, in the north at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viriato View Post
    Portuguese of course He was born in the Portuguese Kingdom and Spain didn't even exist at the time.
    Spain didn't exist?

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    Portuguese are not Spaniards, in fact Portuguese are the quitessential opposite of Spaniards.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laberia View Post
    Spain didn't exist?
    Spain only exists since more or less the XVI century meanwhile Portugal exists since 1128.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjana View Post
    I think this map is not quiet accurate because the borders in Balkans are totally wrong about the years 1250 at least and is lacking the universities in the cities of Durres and Janina.

    Also to much universities are shown in Balkans, in the north at least.
    My point was not showing universities, it was that by 1250 Portugal had its full borders already. Feel free to post another map from that period, it will show Portugal's borders as they are now.

    That university map was what google came up with for a map from 1250.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laberia View Post
    Spain didn't exist?
    What do you mean by Spain? Modern unified Spain as we know it today? That didn't exist at the time. Only because Isabel de Castilla and Fernando de Aragon married in 1479 does not make Spain an unified country, but an unstable federation of kingdoms that sometimes agreed in acting together, and more often, joined forces with France or England to fight the "King of Spain".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobera View Post
    If Spain had ever something to do with Portugal (and the opposite too), that was lost long time ago.

    "Languages are similar"?. Bah, as similiar as the Italian and any other Romance language.

    They both have in common just their borders.

    It's something remarkable how Portugal can be absolutely indifferent for Spaniards.
    Too bad that Portuguese don't even want to do with the Spanish (much less than the Spaniards want).

    Large companies have opened shops in the neighboring country, and the Portuguese state closed the birth center of Elvas, sending patients to the Extremadura health system. Some groups defend Iberism, including some Spanish and Portuguese officers. One 2006 survey showed only 28% of the Portuguese think that Portugal and Spain should be one country. 42% of these would put the capital in Madrid and a 41% in Lisbon. 96.5% thought that the economy of Portugal would fare better in a union with Spain, and more than a half would accept Juan Carlos I of Spain (who was exiled near Lisbon) as head of state (note that the survey was taken at a moment of crisis in the Portuguese economy). A similar survey in Spain, after the Portuguese one, showed that 45.7% of Spanish think that Portugal and Spain should merge; this support is especially higher among younger citizens (18 to 24 years old) and communities near the border with Portugal. But in Spain only 3.3% would prefer Lisbon as the capital, while 80% would prefer Madrid. 43.4% think the country should be known as España/Espanha (Spain) against 39.4% preferring Iberia.
    28% Portuguese would want to join Spain vs 46% Spaniards who want Portugal to join Spain.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laberia View Post
    Spain didn't exist?
    Spain was created as unified kingdom in 1492.

    Did the kingdoms of Castille and Aragon identified as spanish, just like the medieval Albanian Princes and Principalities identified as Arberors or medieval Albanians despite not being part of a unified albanian kngdom?

    This is a good question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endovélico View Post
    He was using "espanhóis" as a synonym to "iberians". The word Espanha comes from Hispania, which was how the romans called this land.
    He certainly wasn't talking about spaniards in the modern sense.
    But this word Iberian or was never used i think. Espanha, Ispania, Hispania, in the end:

    Aragoneses, Castelhanos, Portugueses, todos éramos, por estranhos e próprios, comummente chamados «espanhóis» assim como ainda hoje chamamos «alemão» ao Prussiano, Saxão, Hannoveriano, Austríaco:

    Aragoneses, Castilian, Portuguese, all of them were named (and they name to themselves) as "Spaniards".. as today we name "German" to Prussian, Saxonian, Hannoverian, Austria.... (ALMEIDA GARRET).

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