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Thread: Macedonian conservatives secure win after rerun

  1. #21
    Banned Albobalboa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    Romanians are of Dacian origin actually. Albanians are of Illyrian origin who were most likely related to the Dacians, Thracians, Dardanians (assuming they weren't an Illyrian subgroup) and Paeonians. The Moesians were said to speak a dialect between Thracian and Dacian but were considered a Thracian tribe. The Getae were from Dacia if I'm not mistaken but were considered a Thracian tribe.
    Genetically probably to a large degree. But their language is a romance language, the Dacian identity or anything formed from Dacian is already gone from the national consciousness. They are remains of the Roman Empire, Romans, who are of Dacian origin.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albobalboa View Post
    Genetically probably to a large degree. But their language is a romance language, the Dacian identity or anything formed from Dacian is already gone from the national consciousness. They are remains of the Roman Empire, Romans, who are of Dacian origin.
    Yes, but that doesn't make them any different from Macedonians who have a Slavic national consciousness.

  3. #23
    Banned Albobalboa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    Yes, but that doesn't make them any different from Macedonians who have a Slavic national consciousness.
    I agree. So where is it you're disagreeing with me here? I was drawing the similarity between Romanians and Macedonians and how Albanian identity in the case of Macedonia functions a bit like a Dacian identity (had there been a remaining Dacian-speaking people) would have functioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albobalboa View Post
    I agree. So where is it you're disagreeing with me here? I was drawing the similarity between Romanians and Macedonians and how Albanian identity in the case of Macedonia functions a bit like a Dacian identity (had there been a remaining Dacian-speaking people) would have functioned.
    I wasn't exactly disagreeing. I was just correcting you about Albanians being Dacian and then adding a little more detail.

  5. #25
    Banned Albobalboa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    I wasn't exactly disagreeing. I was just correcting you about Albanians being Dacian and then adding a little more detail.
    My bad, I misunderstood what you were saying. Yeah I'll just leave it up to the historians, what you said is the most common conclusion that serious historians have drawn but it's yet to be fully determined. Can't say I care too much as it doesn't really matter from my perspective which one of those groups are the most direct ancestors of Albanians.

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    http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...ost-for-words/
    Austrian Scholars Leave Albania Lost for Words
    Viennese researchers upset traditionally minded Albanians by pouring cold water on the theory that the Albanian language has its roots in Ancient Illyria.
    "Matzinger points put that when the few surviving fragments of Illyrian and Albanian are compared, they have almost nothing in common.

    “The two are opposites and cannot fit together,” he says. “Albanian is not as the same as Illyrian from a linguistic point of view.”

    Schumacher and Matzinger believe Albanian came into existence separately from Illyrian, orginating from the Indo-European family tree during the second millennium BC, somewhere in the northern Balkans.
    Although Albanian and Illyrian have little or nothing in common, judging from the handful of Illyrian words that archeologists have retrieved, the Albanian link has long been cherished by Albanian nationalists.

    The theory is still taught to all Albanians, from primary school through to university.

    It is popular because it suggests that Albanians descend from an ancient people who populated the Balkans long before the Slavs and whose territory was unfairly stolen by these later incomers.

    “You’ll find the doctrine about the Illyrian origin of Albanians everywhere,” Matzinger muses, “from popular to scientific literature and schoolbooks. “There is no discussion about this, it’s a fact. They say, ‘We are Illyrians’ and that’s that,” he adds.

    What’s in a name?

    The names of many Albanians bear witness to the historic drive to prove the Illyrian link"

  7. #27
    Banned Albobalboa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaArgus1 View Post
    http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...ost-for-words/
    Austrian Scholars Leave Albania Lost for Words
    Viennese researchers upset traditionally minded Albanians by pouring cold water on the theory that the Albanian language has its roots in Ancient Illyria.
    "Matzinger points put that when the few surviving fragments of Illyrian and Albanian are compared, they have almost nothing in common.

    “The two are opposites and cannot fit together,” he says. “Albanian is not as the same as Illyrian from a linguistic point of view.”

    Schumacher and Matzinger believe Albanian came into existence separately from Illyrian, orginating from the Indo-European family tree during the second millennium BC, somewhere in the northern Balkans.
    Although Albanian and Illyrian have little or nothing in common, judging from the handful of Illyrian words that archeologists have retrieved, the Albanian link has long been cherished by Albanian nationalists.

    The theory is still taught to all Albanians, from primary school through to university.

    It is popular because it suggests that Albanians descend from an ancient people who populated the Balkans long before the Slavs and whose territory was unfairly stolen by these later incomers.

    “You’ll find the doctrine about the Illyrian origin of Albanians everywhere,” Matzinger muses, “from popular to scientific literature and schoolbooks. “There is no discussion about this, it’s a fact. They say, ‘We are Illyrians’ and that’s that,” he adds.

    What’s in a name?

    The names of many Albanians bear witness to the historic drive to prove the Illyrian link"
    Why refer to an article when there's plenty of studies and conclusions that have already been drawn?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language

    "Albanian is often seen as the descendant of Illyrian, although this hypothesis has been challenged by some linguists, who maintain that it derives from Dacian or Thracian. (Illyrian, Dacian, and Thracian, however, may have formed a subgroup or a Sprachbund; see Thraco-Illyrian."

    Either way, from your earlier link: "Schumacher and Matzinger believe Albanian came into existence separately from Illyrian, orginating from the Indo-European family tree during the second millennium BC, somewhere in the northern Balkans." “One thing we know for sure is that a language which, with some justification, we can call Albanian has been around for at least 3,000 years,” Schumacher says. “Even though it was not written down for millennia, Albanian existed as a separate entity,” he added. "

    Big fucking whoop haha. Basically all it is saying is that it can't be concluded to be Illyrian due to lack of evidence, same as most serious historians say. Still native to the region. SMH when Slavik Ortodox Revengers post links they don't understand.

    But most importantly here though, stop derailing the legitimate thread just because the current developments are shitting on the only state you "Macedonians" have.

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  9. #29
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    Even today Albania is renaming the Slavic toponyms all across Albania.
    That is a fact.
    First were Illirians then Slavs assimilated the Illirinas. Albanians came along with Croats and Serbs from Iranian northeast. Croats and Serbs were assimilated by Slavs and Slavs in present Albania were assimilated by Albanians. That is why Croats and Serbs speak Slavic and Albanians speak Albanian. Everyone wants to be great so you adopted Illirian history to appear great as much as we adopted the History of Ancient Macedonia. The problem is that the Greeks adopted the History of Ancient Macedonia to appear greater than they deserve.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaArgus1 View Post
    Even today Albania is renaming the Slavic toponyms all across Albania.
    That is a fact.
    First were Illirians then Slavs assimilated the Illirinas. Albanians came along with Croats and Serbs from Iranian northeast. Croats and Serbs were assimilated by Slavs and Slavs in present Albania were assimilated by Albanians. That is why Croats and Serbs speak Slavic and Albanians speak Albanian. Everyone wants to be great so you adopted Illirian history to appear great as much as we adopted the History of Ancient Macedonia. The problem is that the Greeks adopted the History of Ancient Macedonia to appear greater than they deserve.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians

    "Analysis of autosomal DNA, which analyses all genetic components has revealed that few rigid genetic discontinuities exist in European populations, apart from certain outliers such as Saami, Sardinians, Basques, Finns and Kosovar Albanians. They found that Albanians, on the one hand, have a high amount of identity by descent sharing, suggesting that both Albanians from Albania and Kosovo derived from a relatively small population that expanded recently and rapidly in the last 1,500 years. On the other hand, they are not wholly isolated or endogamous, as they share a significant amount of descent with nearby Macedonian, Greek and Italian populations. The recent growth is particularly evident in Kosovar Albanians, which show particularly high levels of homogeneity, in contrast to the higher diversity otherwise found in other Balkan populations."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language

    "The Albanian language is an Indo-European language which has evolved from an unknown Paleo-Balkan language. These are usually taken to be Illyrian or Thracian or both. (See also Thraco-Illyrian and Messapian language.)

    Albanian is now an isolate within Indo-European; no extant language shares the same branch. The only other languages that are the sole surviving member of a branch of Indo-European are Armenian and Greek."

    Enough of your youtube videos and butthurt. Bosnians could be 100% Illyrian genetically for all I care, fact is that identity doesn't survive amongst them. You all have slavic identities, slavic ethnonyms that you carry and slavic languages that you speak etc.

    Now try to stick to subject child. Comparing Albanians adopting Illyrian history with Slavs adopting Macedonian history... You don't share anything with any of the peoples that lived where ancient Macedonians lived, there's literally nothing to you besides slavdom and the fact that the majority of you are descendant of natives that were slavized. Your identity is 100% Slavic.

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