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Thread: There is little to no mainland Greek DNA in Crete, Sicily, Aegean islands, or southern Italy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dianatomia View Post
    Indeed, essentially we can speak of different populations on a biological basis. And one will see even notice greater discrepancies once you will compare Epirot Albanians to Kosovars. The comparison between Arbareshe and Gheghs is not even worthy of debate. I.e. the three haplogroups: E-V13 +
    J2b + R1b-L51 xP311 amount to 75% for Gheghs. For Arbareshe it amounts to 18%. The difference is day and night.
    Let me quote you an greek scholar, who like many of your scholars was an expert in falsification of history, Tito Jochalas:

    3. The Albanians in Central Greece and on Euboea

    The new wave of Albanian migrants who arrived in Greece under Stefan Dushan, gradually began to become a burden for the many Albanians already living in Thessaly. It was thus natural for the new immigrants to continue their journey southwards. However, further progression in this direction brought them into conflict with the Catalans in the duchies of Athens and Neopatria (Ypatis).

    An incident is described in a document from the archives in Palermo that is typical for the conflict between the Albanians and the Catalans. Just after 1360, Pere de Pou, the governor of Thebes, ordered Belinger Soler, the commander of Vitrinitsa (in the Gulf of Corinth), to provide him with a warship to counter a possible Albanian attack. The ship, that was sent on its way, was, however, taken over by the Albanians. The incident got complicated because Pere de Pou made Soler responsible for the loss of the boat and seized another ship to replace it. Soler complained to higher authority, and Frederick III ordered the ship to be returned to its owner. Here is the original document:

    "Messina (?), 28 maig 1368
    Pro Belingerio Soleri
    Scriptum est eidem nobili vicario generali in haec verba:
    Belingerius Soleri civis Thebarum fidelis presens in auditorio magne nostri curie querulose narravit quod dum Petrus de Puteo civis Thebarurn fidelis noster in dicti vicariatus officio presideret eidem exponenti tamquam castellano castri nostri Veteranisse mandavit expresse quod armaret seut armari faceret predictus exponens quamdam barcam nostre curie ibi sistentem pro habendis rumoribus hostium nostrorum Albanensium ad cujus execucionem mandati dictus exponens preter dilacionem aliquam dictam barcam armari fecit et dum pro dicta causa navigaret a dictis nostris hostibus Albanensibus dicta barca capta fuit. Cumque preffatus Petrus pretextu amissionis barce predicte quamdam aliam barcam propriam ipsius exponentis pro emenda ipsius barce abstulit ab eodem in ipsius preuiclicium atque dampnam..."

    On the other hand, the Catalans hoped to profit from the presence of the Albanians, who were good warriors and particularly well known as horsemen. It seems to be the case that the Albanians were permitted to settle in the Duchy of Neopatria and in the northern part of the Duchy of Athens. From another document we learn that in 1350, the Catalans and the Albanians jointly attacked Pteleon, a Venetian military base at the entrance to the Gulf of Pagasitiko:

    "1350 die XIV marcii
    Capta:
    Ad factum damnorum illatorum per illos de Compagna et Albanenses nostris fidelibus Phetelei, rescribatur eis (al bailo, cioč, e ai consiglieri di Eubea) quo gravamur et turbamus de damnis premissis…"

    From an undated list of tribute paid to the Catalans, no doubt from the second half of the 14th century, we see that the Prince of “Mitra” retained 1500 Albanian horsemen:

    "Item lo comte de Mitra qui pot haver be md. homens a cavall Albaneses. E aquest porta la bandera de la Vostra Reyal majestat perque es natural vesall…"

    By this time, many Albanian had settled on the banks of the Sperchios River in the Duchy of Athens. This is evident from a document dated April 1381 in which the Pedro, the King of Aragon and Commander of the Catalan Duchy, addressed the “noble amat et feels nostres lo comte Mitra et tots altres Albaneses habitants en lo terme de la Allada…” (Allada being the region along the Sperchios River) and thanked them for their support in the defence of the County of Salona.

    The unquestionable military prowess of the Albanians, who were probably the ones who assisted the Catalans against the Navarrese in Athens, made the Catalans realise that Albanian settlements on their territory amounted to a strengthening of defence, in particular since the region had been substantially depopulated by Navarrese attacks. For this reason, in 1382, Pedro, King of Aragon, granted immunity from taxes and duties for two years to any Albanians and Greeks wanting to settle in Attica. The text reads as follows:

    "Lo rey d’Aragň:
    Vescomte
    a nos es estat suplicat que volgussem atorgar a tot Grech e Albanés qui vulla venir el lo ducat de Athenes que sia franch per ij anys, e encara que vullan atorgar la capella de sant Jordi, la qual es en La Vadia e es de la nostra cambra, a frare Francesc Comenge de sa vida…
    Dada en 10 loch de Ulldecona la darrer dia de decembre del any de nostre Senyor m. ccc. lXXXij sots nostre segell secret,
    Rex Petrus.
    Fuit directa vicecomiti de Rochabertino"

    There was probably further Albanian migration into Attica in 1388 when Nerio Acciaiuoli became ruler of the Duchy of Athens, and then under his son and successor Antonio. The source material is, however, not completely clear in this regard. The Venetians who owned Euboea were now afraid that the neighbouring duchy was becoming too strong with the influx of Albanians and decided to allow Albanians and others to settle on Euboea. Here, too, they were granted substantial privileges for two years on condition that they retained their horses and kept themselves in readiness to defend the island. This is a particularly significant document that we give here in full:

    "1402, 20 aprilis
    Quedam provisio facta, pro apopulando Insulam Nigropontis.
    Sapientes ordinum
    Quod, pro apopulando Insulam nostram Nigropontis, scribatur et mandetur Regimini nostro Nigropontis, quod debeat facere publiche proclamari, quod quilibet Albanensis, vel alia gens, qui non sint nostri subditi, qui cum equis volent venire et venient ad habitandum, a die captionis presentis partis, usque duos annos proxime sequentes, in Insulam Nigropontis, recipientur et sint erunt perpetuo liberi et absoluti ab omni angaria reali et personali, et sibi donabuntur de terrenis nostri comunis incultis, que tamen sint apta ad laborandum, cum conditione tamen; quod dicti tales Albanenses et alia gens equestris, teneantur tenere tot equos, quod homines capita familie erunt numero, nec possint recedere de dicta Insula sine licentia dicti Regiminis, sed teneantur et debeant, omni vice qua erit necesse, equitare et ire ad defensionem Insule, et offensionem quorumcumque volentium damnificare Insulam nostram predictam, et post mortem eorum, dicta terrena sint et esse debeant suorum heredum, qui habitarent super dicta Insula, cum obligatione, tenendi angariam predictam. Si vero non haberent heredes, dicta terrena revertantur in comune. Verum dictum Regimen Nigropontis, in facto dandi de dictis territoriis nostri comunis dictis Albanensibus, et aliis equestribus venientibus habitatum in Insula predicta, habeat libertatem dandi predictis illam quantitatem de terrenis nostri comunis, per modum predictum qui ipsi Regimini videbitur, secundum qualitatem personarum, et quantitatem ac conditionem familie illius qui venerit habitatum in Insula predicta."

    We have already noted that Charles I Tocco, Prince of Cephalonia, expelled the Albanians when he conquered Aetolia in 1405 and Arta and Janina in 1411. His policy of driving all the Albanians out of Epirus and western Greece had the natural consequence of pushing them towards Attica and into the Peloponnese. Some of them, together with others already living in Attica and Boeotia, a total of some 300 families, accepted the favourable conditions the Venetian offered them to settle in Euboea.

    "1425, 22 mai
    Sapientes ordinum
    Capta
    Intellectis literis vestris, quibus nobis significastis, quod certa Capita albanensium ducaminis et diversorum locorum numero familiarum trecentarum intraverunt Insulam et illam volunt habitare, quorum adventus videtur summe placere Comunitati nostre Nigropontis, que etiam super inde nostro dominio scripsit. Intellecto etiam quantum eorum adventus affert comodum et utilitatem dicte Insule, Vobis respondemus cum nostris consiliis rogatorum et additionis, quod placet nobis, et sic Vobis mandamus, quatenus permittatis dictos albanenses et alios albanenses, qui vellent venire ad dictam Insulam, ipsam Insulam habitare, providendo et habendo tamen bonam advertentiam, quod non habitent fortilicia nostra, sed intrare et exire possint ad partem ad partem, et non habitare in eis pro securitate eorum locorum, sed extra persistant, et non inferant damnum subdictis nostris, dando etiam sibi sacramentum quod erunt fideles nostro dominio, in cunctis concernendibus comodum et honorem . Et super his ita provideatis, quod eorum adventus sit proficuus nostro dominio, et fidelibus nostris de inde. Verum quia per easdem literas scribitis Magnificum Antonium de Azaiolis conqueri de eorum adventu ad dictam Insulam. Volumus et Vobis mandamus, quod si amplius Vobis conqueretur debeatis facere excusationem cum illis melioribus verbis et modis, que Vobis videbuntur."

    However, the Duke of Athens, Antonio Acciaiuoli, soon realised that the loss of his Albanian subjects amounted to a decrease in his military strength and protested, through his representative in Euboea, P. Melzola, about the measures taken by the military authorities in Euboea to settle the inhabitants of his duchy there without his permission. The Venetians initially endeavoured to solve the conflict by peaceful means, as we can see from the following document:

    "1425, die VI Novembris
    … Ad aliam autem requisitionem quam facit super facto illarum familiarum Albanensium qui venerunt habitatum super insula nostra Nigropontis respondemus quod non habemus a rectoribus nostris Nigropontis informationem necessariam super hoc, et propterea eis scribemus pro habenda debita informatione super predictis, qua habita, respondemus per illum modum qui erit conveniens et honestus…"

    and allowed those of the 300 families who wished to do so, to return to the Duchy of Athens.

    "1426, 21 Ianuarii
    Quod scribatur Regimini nostro Nigropontis in hac forma, videlicet:
    … Insuper recepimus alias literas vestri ser Tadei alterius consiliarii, per quas nobis significastis habuisse contrariam opinionem in non permittendo dictos Albanenses redire ad loca ipsius domini Antonii, … nolentes amplius hanc rem in longum ducere, … qui volent abinde recedere, et ire ad loca dicti domini Antonii, licentiam perbeatis ad ea loca se conferendi. Alios autem Albanenses, quos dixistis utiles esse, et obedientes, qui de Levadie partibus et de Blachia priusquam suprascripti, illuc venerunt, sicut scripsistis, debeatur retinere in Insula, et sibi providere de aliquo territorio nostri comunis, aut de alia re, ut vivere et stare possint in ea Insula…"

    4. The Albanians in the Peloponnese

    Scholars have not yet established the exact date of the first migration of Albanians to the Peloponnese. It is generally accepted that, after their victory at the Battle of Acheloos in 1358 and favoured by the benevolence of Simeon Urosh, the Albanians settled in almost all of Epirus and Thessaly, but also in Aetolia-Acarnania. From Angelokastron, it was easy to cross over the Gulf of Patras to the Peloponnese, the coast of which was directly visible. It was quite probably Maria Cantacuzene who promoted the initial immigration of the Albanians when, repudiated by her husband, Nikephoros II, she sought refuge with her brother Manuel Cantacuzene. Spyridon Lambros stated that the first Albanian immigrants in the Peloponnese arrived at the time of Despot Manuel Cantacuzene (1348-1350). His hypothesis, though recently brought up again, was not generally accepted. Zakythinos held the view that Manuel Cantacuzene “semble avoir utilisé leurs services, mais on ne peut pas encore parler d’un colonisation.” There is no source material to support this.

    From Byzantine reports, we know that 10,000 Albanians with their families settled in the Peloponnese during the reign of Theodor I Palaeologus (1380-1407), with his permission. The exact year of their arrival is not known. It probably took place in the final years of his reign as emperor, when Charles I Tocco began expelling the Albanians from his territory. We also do not know where the Albanians settled in the Peloponnese – the most probably regions would be Arcadia, Argos and Elis. In a decree (ορισμός) issued by Despot Thomas Palaeologus in September 1436 or 1451, we know that the men of: “κυρ Κόντου του Παλούμπη” (about 20, of whom most were Albanians) were exempt from the “φλωριατικόν” and that they “πάντη ελεύθεροι κ(αι) αναπαί(ητοι) ως απαξ ευργετηθέντες τούτο παρά της βασιλεί(ας) μου διά του ότι οφείλωσ(ιν) εκδουλεύειν της βασιλεί(ας) μου μετά αλόγων και αρμάτ(ων) αυτών ένθα οριζονται…”



    19th century Albanian costumes in Greece.



    19th century Albanian costumes
    in Greece.

    It is of interest to note that both Palaeologus and the Venetians provided uncultivated and depopulated land, and that Manuel Palaeologus soon stated that the newcomers were very good farmers. The rulers of Greece thus profited from the military and farming expertise of the Albanians.

    The Venetians, who had shown great interest in Albanian immigration to Euboea, did not wish to remain behind and permitted the first settlement of Albanians on their land in the Peleponnese, in Metone and Corone, in 1401.

    "140l, 16 februarii
    … Quod scribatur et mandatur Castellanis locorum nostrorum Coroni et Methoni, quod debeant accipere ad soldum XII Albanenses, vel alios homines confidentes equestres, pro quolibet dictorum locorum, qui sint boni et sufficentes homines, et habeant bonos equos, et arma consueta haberi deinde per tales…"

    and similarly in 1422:

    "1422, die XXII Iulii
    Quod scribatur nobili viro ser Delphino Venerio ambassiatori et provisori ad partes Amoree in hac forma:
    … tamen ante conclusionem si videbitis fore expediens pro bona executione suprascriptorum et securitate paisii [Examilii] dare provisionem aliquibus ex dictis capitibus Albanensium…"

    and again in 1425:

    "1425, die XXII Maii
    Quod scriptum fuit Castellanis Coroni et Mothoni super facto quorumdam Albanensium volentium venire habitare in locis nostris…
    Recepimus literas vestras datas Methoni quarto Maii presentis, per quas nobis significastis requisitionem factam cum maxima instantia a duobus capitibus Albanensibus veniendi cum eorum comitivis sub umbra et in locis nosiris, quorum unus vult venire cum equis quinque millibus, et alterum cum equis quingentis cum illis homagiis et juramentis que viderentur nobis…"

    The mass immigration of Albanians strengthened their position so that in 1453 they were able to rise against the Palaeologi.

    5. The Albanians on the Islands of the Ionian and Aegean Seas

    Due to their proximity to the coasts of Epirus and Aetolia-Acarnania, that had been flooded with Albanian migrants at the end of the 14th century, the Ionian isles seemed to be a perfect location for new Albanian settlements. It would seem that these islands attracted Albanians from the Peleponnese in particular, because it was there that the Venetians gradually lost their possessions, one after the other, to the Turks. We know that the Venetian Senate twice (1485 and 1488) called for a repopulation of the island of Zante and sent directives in this regard to the governors of Metone and Corone. It is also undisputed that, after losing their last possessions in the Peloponnese (1540), the Venetians settled Albanian families on the Ionian isles. It is also undisputed that the Albanians settled on the islands of the Aegean. For Hydra, Spetzes and Poros, it has been hypothesized that they were populated at the end of the 15th century by Albanians who were fleeing from the Turks. On Salamis, the Albanians are mentioned for the first time in 1674 and it would seem that they continued on to the neighbouring island of Anggistri somewhat later.
    I can continue with many other authors, but i think this is enough to make clear the situation in your country, 5-6 century ago, because the author describe events in your country, not in Albania. Did you noticed this? He describe your country, ruled by lords arrived from half of the world, but not a single fucking greek noble and this foreign rulers invite an alien population, Albanians to settle in a empty Greece. Enjoy this lesson of history and continue to play together with your friends, with graphs, %, haplogroups, etc.

    EDIT
    Sorry dude, i forgot the source, here it is:

    Titos Jochalas: ‘Über die Einwanderung der Albaner in Griechenland, eine zusammenfassende Betrachtung.’ in: Dissertationes Albanicae in honorem Josephi Valentini et Ernesti Koliqi Septuagenariorum (Munich: Trofenik 1971), pp. 89-106.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    Ive already posted sources regarding the Albanian migrations southward, yet you constantly dismiss them, even though they are recorded through history time and time again. Its even further supprted by genetics, Ghegs have a very high concentration of j2b2 yet it eventually fades the deeper you get into Albanian Epirus, and the frequency only gets lower once you hit Epirot Greeks. This hints at southward migrations from probably central Albania, Berat and Elbasan regions.

    What is your haplogroup?
    First of all, you have posted an copy-paste from an ridiculous author and not sources, i don't understand why you use the plurale.
    Second, speaking for an migration of Albanians from north to south in XIV-XV century, is not ridiculous, but it is stupid. In that period of times, Albanians had an nobilty and South Albania was ruled from this famous Albanian families, like, Arianiti, Muzaka, Bue Shpata, Zenebishti, Gropaj and many others. Was an Albanian, Bue Shpata who ruled half of Peloponnesus and tried to put under his control the entire Peninsula, fighting against the Ottomans. Do you understand how stupid are your claims?
    BTW, you have ZERO battles against the Ottomans, this is an fact, there is an thread about this, the thread of shame. I am curious to know, can you tell me the name of an greek noble who lived in this period of time that we are discussing?
    Thank you in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    I guess this either hints that the population of Albanian 600 years ago was drastically different than it is today in terms of haplgroup markers, or that the Arbereshe are paternally Italian, although Im not quite sure about Italian frequencies and how they relate.
    The differences between Tosks and Gheghs are also considerable. Especially if you consider that these two groups inhabit more or less the same area. It certainly suggests inter-mixture between Albanians speakers and other natives. We actually know very little of this group of people. I mean, we have far earlier references of Vlachs in the Balkans than we have of Albanians. The area they inhabit was scarcely populated. They had no writing and they didn't live in organized societies until very late. So a lot of things could have happened somewhere in the early Middle Ages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by catgeorge View Post
    Afro-Levantines

    Gheg Albanians:
    E-V13: 38%
    J2b: 25%
    R1b-L51 xP311: 12%
    R1b-M269 xL51: 4.2%
    I2a-xM26,M223: 3.3%
    R1a-M17: 2.5%
    I1-M253: 3.3%

    Tosk Albanians:
    E-V13: 29%
    J2b: 12%
    R1b-L51 xP311: 8%
    R1b-M269 xL51: 6%
    I2a-xM26,M223: 11.5%
    I2a-M223: 5%
    R1a-M17: 6%
    I1-M253: 3.8%

    Arbereshe Albanians (Southern Italy):
    E-V13: 15%
    J2b: 3%
    R1b-L51 xP311: NONE
    R1b-M269 xL51: 8%
    I2a-xM26, M223: 10%
    I2a-M223: 10%
    R1a-M17: 10%
    E1b-xV13: 13%
    I1-M253: 5.3%
    Let's see what serious genetic research showed in comparison to our neighbors.

    "Analysis of autosomal DNA, which analyses all genetic components has revealed that few rigid genetic discontinuities exist in European populations, apart from certain outliers such as Saami, Sardinians, Basques, Finns and Kosovar Albanians. They found that Albanians, on the one hand, have a high amount of identity by descent sharing, suggesting that both Albanians from Albania and Kosovo derived from a relatively small population that expanded recently and rapidly in the last 1,500 years. On the other hand, they are not wholly isolated or endogamous, as they share a significant amount of descent with nearby Macedonian, Greek and Italian populations. The recent growth is particularly evident in Kosovar Albanians, which show particularly high levels of homogeneity, in contrast to the higher diversity otherwise found in other Balkan populations."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians Source is in the link.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    Ive already posted sources regarding the Albanian migrations southward, yet you constantly dismiss them, even though they are recorded through history time and time again. Its even further supprted by genetics, Ghegs have a very high concentration of j2b2 yet it eventually fades the deeper you get into Albanian Epirus, and the frequency only gets lower once you hit Epirot Greeks. This hints at southward migrations from probably central Albania, Berat and Elbasan regions.

    What is your haplogroup?
    the little shit simply ignores even pro-Albanian scholars who talked about Epirus being settled from the North" and any piece of genetic evidence that supports it. By proof what he demands are digital photos of 13th Century Albanians moving in to their caves in Vlore wearing the qeleshe and carrying their bindles. This is how fucking stupid the guy is, if you made a comment that Abraham Lincoln freed the American slaves, he'd demand photos of the president actually taking the chains off of emancipated Africans.

    Even Balboa posted the evidence here in this very thread (perhaps clumsily and unwittingly)


    Quote Originally Posted by Albobalboa View Post
    Let's see what serious genetic research showed in comparison to our neighbors.

    "Analysis of autosomal DNA, which analyses all genetic components has revealed that few rigid genetic discontinuities exist in European populations, apart from certain outliers such as Saami, Sardinians, Basques, Finns and Kosovar Albanians. They found that Albanians, on the one hand, have a high amount of identity by descent sharing, suggesting that both Albanians from Albania and Kosovo derived from a relatively small population that expanded recently and rapidly in the last 1,500 years. .
    i.e. Albanians expanded into Epirus post-antiquity.
    書堂개 삼 년에 풍월 읊는다

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis View Post
    the little shit simply ignores even pro-Albanian scholars who talked about Epirus being settled from the North" and any piece of genetic evidence that supports it. By proof what he demands are digital photos of 13th Century Albanians moving in to their caves in Vlore wearing the qeleshe and carrying their bindles. This is how fucking stupid the guy is, if you made a comment that Abraham Lincoln freed the American slaves, he'd demand photos of the president actually taking the chains off of emancipated Africans.

    Even Balboa posted the evidence here in this very thread (perhaps clumsily and unwittingly)




    i.e. Albanians expanded into Epirus post-antiquity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis View Post
    Just sit back and enjoy the salty tears of Jochalas.
    Fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis View Post
    the little shit simply ignores even pro-Albanian scholars who talked about Epirus being settled from the North" and any piece of genetic evidence that supports it. By proof what he demands are digital photos of 13th Century Albanians moving in to their caves in Vlore wearing the qeleshe and carrying their bindles. This is how fucking stupid the guy is, if you made a comment that Abraham Lincoln freed the American slaves, he'd demand photos of the president actually taking the chains off of emancipated Africans.

    Even Balboa posted the evidence here in this very thread (perhaps clumsily and unwittingly)




    i.e. Albanians expanded into Epirus post-antiquity.
    I don't care about romanticized ancient history personally so that's not my discussion. I've been pretty clear of what I think Albanian origins are and that's central/north Albania/West Kosovo/northwest Macedonia. Leaving the full answer to the people that really study that stuff.

    It was to point out catgeorge's desperate bullshit post. He refuses to accept facts even when a pro-Greek (Sikeliot) posts them fully unbiased.

    To quote from the OP:

    a) the Greek DNA was overrun by massive inflows of MENA genes,
    OR
    b) Greeks are so Slavicized today that they are nothing like their ancient ancestors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albobalboa View Post
    It was to point out catgeorge's desperate bullshit post. He refuses to accept facts even when a pro-Greek (Sikeliot) posts them fully unbiased.

    To quote from the OP:

    a) the Greek DNA was overrun by massive inflows of MENA genes,
    OR
    b) Greeks are so Slavicized today that they are nothing like their ancient ancestors.
    This would need to be the case for Sicily. It HAS been demonstrated by y-dna that Sicilians have substantial Greek and in general, Balkan y-DNA and their mtdna gene pool is shared wit the Levant. Therefore, that Greek y-DNA must not have brought with it as high of North European autosomal DNA as is present in Greece now, though I do maintain Greece always had more of this than Sicily did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albobalboa View Post
    I don't care about romanticized ancient history personally so that's not my discussion. I've been pretty clear of what I think Albanian origins are and that's central/north Albania/West Kosovo/northwest Macedonia. Leaving the full answer to the people that really study that s

    No one cares here about Albanian DNA or origins
    The thread is not about Abanian genetics so you should post these things somewhere else


    a) the Greek DNA was overrun by massive inflows of MENA genes,
    OR
    Not massive

    b) Greeks are so Slavicized today that they are nothing like their ancient ancestors.
    No
    Mainland Greeks have more Slavic admixture in general than South Italians and Aegean islanders do
    But its not massive and Greeks with heavy Slavic admixure are outliers

    Even North Greeks get Sicilian and South Italian things and Central Greek"which includes some Aegean Islands"in their top 10

    1 East_Med 23.56
    2 West_Med 18.99
    3 Baltic 14.65
    4 Atlantic 13.79
    5 West_Asian 12.71
    6 North_Sea 8.45
    7 Eastern_Euro 5.63
    8 Red_Sea 1.31
    9 Southeast_Asian 0.87
    10 Northeast_African 0.04


    Single Population Sharing:


    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Greek 3.97
    2 Greek_Thessaly 6.79
    3 Central_Greek 8.95
    4 Bulgarian 9.58
    5 East_Sicilian 10.26
    6 Italian_Abruzzo 10.53
    7 Ashkenazi 11.12
    8 West_Sicilian 11.26
    9 South_Italian 11.32
    10 Tuscan 11.57
    11 Romanian 12.66
    12 North_Italian 15.72
    13 Italian_Jewish 16.14
    14 Serbian 16.56
    15 Algerian_Jewish 16.74
    16 Sephardic_Jewish 16.9
    17 Tunisian_Jewish 20.5
    18 Moldavian 20.62
    19 Cyprian 21.42
    20 Libyan_Jewish 22


    Macedonia:
    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 18.54
    2 Atlantic 16.78
    3 West_Med 16.47
    4 West_Asian 14.25
    5 Baltic 12.46
    6 North_Sea 10.95
    7 Eastern_Euro 4.72
    8 Red_Sea 4.51
    9 Northeast_African 1.31


    Single Population Sharing:


    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Greek 5.71
    2 Greek_Thessaly 6.71
    3 Bulgarian 7.13
    4 Italian_Abruzzo 8.49
    5 Tuscan 8.58
    6 Romanian 9.32
    7 Central_Greek 9.38
    8 East_Sicilian 9.94
    9 West_Sicilian 10.56
    10 Ashkenazi 10.79
    11 North_Italian 12.37
    12 South_Italian 12.38
    13 Serbian 13.19
    14 Italian_Jewish 17.17
    15 Sephardic_Jewish 17.54
    16 Moldavian 18.31
    17 Algerian_Jewish 18.4
    18 Portuguese 19
    19 Spanish_Extremadura 19
    20 Spanish_Andalucia 19.17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    The same holds on every calculator. It is impossible for the populations to have ever been the same unless you think Sicilians and Cretans are 25% MENA since ancient Greek times, or Greeks are the equivalent amount Slavic.
    Or maybe Sicilians and Cretans are 1/8 MENA since ancient Greek times, and Greeks are 1/8 Slavic since then. That's more likely. 1/8 isn't a huge amount of gene flow, most Aframs have more Euro than that even.

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