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Thread: Is science the fundamental source of knowledge?

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Abubu View Post
    When I made this thread I was expecting exactly this sort of reply, and the reason I made this thread was to show how wrong it is. You first point out that the methods of science are only appropriate to discover the natural world. However, you then go on to say that it's the only reliable way of defining reality, which means that you assume that there is nothing beyond what science can show, this without evidence. The greatest contradiction of it all, finally, is that you say all of this not with evidence, but with a priori argument. You even argue that knowledge must rely on evidence, without any evidence for the claim, which would be impossible.
    We don't need an alternative for something that is itself not indicated by the evidence. We don't need an alternative to fairies, so why need invent an alternative to God, when there is not even good enough evidence for it in the first place? Supernatural entities are taken to exist on faith, not based on evidence. Had people had evidence, they would not give faith as the reason for holding the beliefs. Faith is the excuse that people give for something for which they do not have a sufficient reason. This is why faith is fundamentally hostile to reason. All that methodological naturalism says is that we cannot investigate the supernatural, we cannot confirm supernatural causation (at least currently), therefore we are going to limit ourselves to the natural realm and seek only natural explanations. And haven't you noticed, that for every successful explanation knowledge (science) has given us, the answer has always consistently been natural. So I don't even see the use of the concept of the supernatural. It is a useless term in science. It is completely disregarded. Science is about discovering nature. Faith is nothing but gullibility disguised as a virtue, and it is fundamentally dishonest. It is not a pathway to truth. It is a defunct and invalid excuse for a reason.


  2. #22
    Veteran Member Petros Agapetos's Avatar
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    {Accidental double post, sorry}

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I think science should be seen more as a tool than as a source.
    I agree with this.

  4. #24
    Герр Абубу Herr Abubu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Agapetos View Post
    We don't need an alternative for something that is itself not indicated by the evidence. We don't need an alternative to fairies, so why need invent an alternative to God, when there is not even good enough evidence for it in the first place? Supernatural entities are taken to exist on faith, not based on evidence. Had people had evidence, they would not give faith as the reason for holding the beliefs. Faith is the excuse that people give for something for which they do not have a sufficient reason. This is why faith is fundamentally hostile to reason. All that methodological naturalism says is that we cannot investigate the supernatural, we cannot confirm supernatural causation (at least currently), therefore we are going to limit ourselves to the natural realm and seek only natural explanations. And haven't you noticed, that for every successful explanation knowledge (science) has given us, the answer has always consistently been natural. So I don't even see the use of the concept of the supernatural. It is a useless term in science. It is completely disregarded. Science is about discovering nature. Faith is nothing but gullibility disguised as a virtue, and it is fundamentally dishonest. It is not a pathway to truth. It is a defunct and invalid excuse for a reason.
    Now this is how I know you can't think of your own. Instead of actually answering what I said, which is completely without fault and exposes how laughably stupid your scientistic view of the world, you start talking about completely different things. You can't, as you have shown repeatedly, defend your views, because you understand them only as edicts and have no understanding further than what is necessary to regurgitate this nonsense.

    There are two points here that you have to answer. One, that to argue that any position requires evidence contradicts itself. Two, that to argue that the naturalistic, therefore scientific, worldview is the only valid one is to assume naturalism. Moreover, the scientific method can't prove itself using the scientific method, meaning that the scientistic worldview rests on a huge contradiction.

    We are talking at a kindergarten level of philosophy and even then you can't keep up with the pace of it. I would argue that there isn't so much a philosophical position and worldview to be dealt with here as it is an ignorance and incapability of philosophical thinking.

  5. #25
    Veteran Member Laberia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    I agree with this.
    Ok, it`s a tool to learn the truth but also the only source of truth.

    There is a spirit of independence and a love of the country, in the whole people, that, in a grater measure, does away the vast distinction, observable in other parts of Turkey, between the followers of of two religions. For when the natives of other provinces, upon being asked who they are, will say, we are Turks or, we are Christians. A man of this country answers, I am an Albanian. -John Cameron Hobhouse

  6. #26
    Герр Абубу Herr Abubu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laberia View Post
    Ok, it`s a tool to learn the truth but also the only source of truth.
    Makes a lot of sense you would say this, you are a huge subhuman after all. If science is the only source of truth it should be fairly easy to prove science using science, shouldn't it?

  7. #27
    Veteran Member Laberia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Abubu View Post
    Makes a lot of sense you would say this, you are a huge subhuman after all. If science is the only source of truth it should be fairly easy to prove science using science, shouldn't it?
    Idiot. It`s the only source because exist a "magic" word called experiment. If you claim something, you have to prove it. Show it. The rest are BS.

    There is a spirit of independence and a love of the country, in the whole people, that, in a grater measure, does away the vast distinction, observable in other parts of Turkey, between the followers of of two religions. For when the natives of other provinces, upon being asked who they are, will say, we are Turks or, we are Christians. A man of this country answers, I am an Albanian. -John Cameron Hobhouse

  8. #28
    Герр Абубу Herr Abubu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laberia View Post
    Idiot. It`s the only source because exist a "magic" word called experiment. If you claim something, you have to prove it. Show it. The rest are BS.
    If you weren't such a huge subhuman you would understand that you're contradicting yourself massively. You say all of this, and yet you haven't scientifically proven it.

  9. #29
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    Petros provides arguments. Herr Abubu provides fallacies. Petros for the win.

    The saddest example was the attack on the Scientific Method, which is a process to test a hypothesis and not a belief system unlike a religious text that claims a number of things that have been proven false but we're all expected to believe.

  10. #30
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    No. The source of the truth is the universe, not science.

    Science is a tool for researching the universe around us.

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