Ethnogenesis of Normandy

[Ilma]

How comes Normandy is different from others french areas ethnically speaking ?

We should go back in history to track from where Norman people comes.

Normandy is a big land of 30 100km². The land as we know it today was created and legit from 10th century when Rollon signed the Saint-Clair sur Epte treaty with the Frankish Kingdom.

What Normandy was before his legit creation in 911 ?

I- Iron Age in Normandy : Celtics roots

Long barrow in Colombiers-sur-Seulles, Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France. Neolithic. 5th millennium BC.

For centuries celts were strongly present in Normandy and as you can notice their tribes were not the same as other Gaul's tribes to begin with.

Before the Roman Empire came to take over Gaul there were Gallic tribes in the actual place of France. Then Normandy place was populated by several celtic tribes from West to North.
As you can see on this map, Normandy was populated by several Celtics tribes and themselves actually from 3 different celtic areas :

1-Armorican Gaul (pink) for the main part from West to East.

-Unelles
Living in the Cotentin, north of western Normandy. Lead by their chief Viridovix during the Roman Conquest, they were around 3000 soldiers. They finally were defeated around 57 BC. They were part of the alliance to help Alesia and Vecingetorix.
-Baïocasses
Living in the Western part of Normandy (called Bessin) they were neighboors of Unelles. Their name means "curly blond haired people". Julius Caesar does not mention the Baiocasses in his commentaries on the Gallic Wars of the 50s BC, but they are listed in the Notitia dignitatum and are probably the same people Pliny calls Bodiocasses.
-Viducasses
That tribe was neighboor of Baïocasses and living in western Central Normandy. The names means "wooden hair".
-Lexoviens
They were living in Central Normandy and their name might be a reference to the celtic god Lug, their name meaning "Lug Tribe", those who pray Lug or protected by Lug. They were exchanging with mediterrannean people pewter and plumb against oil and wine.

Lexoviens presence : Bronze coin struck by Léxoviens, Ith century BC.

2-Celtic Gaul, Lyon area (green) for the southern eastern part.

-Aulerques (Eburovices)
Neighboors of Lexoviens and other celtic tribes, they were allied with Lexoviens and Unelles against Roman Empire, following the leader Viridovix.

Aulerues (Eburovices) presence : golden coin.

3-Belgian Gaul (yellow) for the northern part above the Seine.

-Calètes
They were a celtic tribe in Northern Normandy, they gave their name to the current area "Pays de Caux". Their name means "hard". They fought with the Belgium coalition Gaul against Romans with 10 000 men. In 52 BC they sent to Vercingétorix 20 000 men to help Alesia.
-Véliocasses
They were neighboor of Calètes tribe in Northern Normandy. Their name seems related to their "curly hair" and "Vélio" possibily meaning "the best or modest". They were part of Beligium Coalition against Romans too and sent around 10 000 men to them. To help Alésia they sent 3000 men. They were the tribe who founded the current city of Rouen (Rotamagus).

Presence of Calètes : local coin , IIth or Ith century BC.




Gallic Helmet in Northern Normandy, Amfreville-sous-les-Monts, IVth century BC. (bronze, iron, gold, enamel).

II-Roman Empire and Roman presence in Normandy (from ~50 BC til ~450).

Once Romans defeated the last rebellous Celtic tribes in Normandy they started since 27 BC their policy of urbanization (building roads, forums, roman baths, theaters, etc).

Agriculture in the region provided wheat and linen, according to Pliny the Elder.

Today the last remains of Roman presence in Normandy is mainly found in the site of Lillebone (Northern Normandy) and Vieux (Central Normandy).

1- Lillebonne : Juliobona site.

Lillebonne is located on the north banks of the Seine River. From the Ith to the IIIth centuries AD the town, then called Juliobona by the Romans – a homage to Julius Cesar, was a prosperous supply base on the channel between Gaul and Britannia. The Romans abandoned the town towards the end of the third century when it was invaded by barbarians. The amphitheatre-theatre is the most prominent, but not the only Roman feature of the town today. The museum opposite has an extensive collection of artefacts excavated around the town.

That theatre could welcome 5000 persons for gladiator fights, dramas, chase of animals... The town was rich thanks to commerce between Brittania and Paris until the IVth century when Rotamagus (Rouen today) became more important in the area.

Remains of the Theater of Juliobona, Northern Normandy.

2- Vieux la Romaine : Aregenua site.

Vieux la Romaine is located in central Normandy.

During the 1st century AD, Aregenua (Vieux-la-Romaine) became the capital of the Viducasse tribe. Situated at the crossroads of two Roman roads, running north-south and east-west, it became an important commercial staging town. Aregenua and Juliobona (present-day Lillebonne in Upper Normandy) are the only two capital towns in Gallo-Roman Normandy that did not become Medieval towns.

One part of the Aregenua site, central Normandy.

3- Celtic remains in countryside and Gallo-romance period.

The roman presence was mainly in town where they ruled the areas while the countryside of Normandy was remaining celtic by traditions as we find for example fanums which were little gallo-roman temples of indigenous tradition.

Beside the settlement of Romans in three towns (Juliobona, Vieux-la-Romaine and Rotamagus) their presence was not massive in Normandy. All the rest of the area was still traditionnally and strongly Celtic according to the fact we didn't find roman proof of settlements elsewhere except rarely in some little towns. Artefacts are mainly found in those towns where rich Gallo-roman villas have been built.

The roman stategy was to build a roman town in each Celtic tribe area in order to rule around. The assimilation was pretty fast though thanks to the fact indigenous population had rights to rule once they obtained roman citizenship. The best of them could even access to the Senate in Rome at the moment. The latin language is adopted and local population can start to rule local affairs since they totally adopt the roman culture, language and citizenship.

Example of fanum found in Southern Normandy.

By the way, druids were banned but still local population could have temples and pray their own gods. The celtic paganism was tolerated by Romans in Normandy. The assimilation by relion and architecture left today some mix between Roman gods and Celtic gods overthere in decoration and sculptures but also in presence of the fanums.

At the moment Normandy is federated area part of Roman Empire, belonging mostly to the France territory we know today.

Normandy before Clovis and the Merovingian period.

SOURCES :

Part I

-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hallstatt_LaTene.png
-http://antique.mrugala.net/Celte/Peuples%20celtes.htm
-https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fileeuples_gaulois.jpg?uselang=fr
-http://www.patrimoine-normand.com/index-fiche-30426.html
-https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Colombiers-sur-Seulles_tumulus_2.jpg?uselang=fr
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casque_celtique#Le_casque_d.27Amfreville-sous-les-Monts
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unelles
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiocasses
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viducasses
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexoviens
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eburovices
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caletes
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veliocasses
-https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bronze_au_cheavl_et_%C3%A0_la_rouelle_frapp%C 3%A9_par_les_L%C3%A9xoviens.jpg?uselang=fr
-https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hemistatere_Eburovices.jpg?uselang=fr
-https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cal%C3%A8tes_(Pays_de_Caux)_H%C3%A9mistat%C3% A8re_%E2%80%9Cau_sanglier_aurige%E2%80%9D.jpg?usel ang=fr
-http://www.universalis.fr/encyclopedie/normandie/1-des-celtes-aux-normands/

Part II

-L'histoire dans l'histoire de 96 à 912 après J-C. Olivier Petit.
-https://archaeology-travel.com/france/archaeological-sites-in-normandy/
-http://www.laurentvdbk.fr/2016/09/le-theatre-romain-de-lillebonne.html
-https://archaeology-travel.com/france/vieux-la-romaine-aregenua/
-https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fanum_d%27Oisseau_le_Petit.jpg?uselang=fr
-http://www.cndp.fr/archive-musagora/gaulois/regions/normandie.htm
-http://www.histoire-normandie.fr/la-normandie-gallo-romaine
-http://mapio.net/pic/p-12483790/
-http://his.nicolas.free.fr/Panorama/PagePanorama.php?mnemo=FinEmpire

[Ilma]

III - Barbarian invasions and settlement in Normandy

For more than 3 centuries, Romans and Celtic local population lived in Pax Romana until the Barbarian invasions started to disturb the area. Romans tried to defend the Norman coast against the Saxons, the Frisians and the Franks with the Saxon Shore in 380. Some germans are accepted and recruted by Roman empire to settle and defend Normandy against the Germanic tribes.

The Saxon Shore (Litus Saxonicum) ; military command of the late Roman Empire, consisting of a series of fortifications on both sides of the English Channel.

1-First settlements of Germanic tribes during the late Roman Empire

There the first evidence of settlement we find today are the toponymes primarly found in Central Norman Coast with the town called Allemania, litteraly "Germany" (today became Fleury sur Orne) attesting of the presence and settlement of Alamans for a garnison of the Roman army.

Then we found also in Central Southern Normandy the town of Almenêches (in latin Almanniscus) meaning in Gallo-roman "Germans's place" from Almen (Alamans) and esche / esque (as suffix to specify a nationality).

Still in Central Normandy we found close presence of what could be Goths in Airan, Frénouville, Bellengreville, Saint-Martin de Fontenay... Digs led by the CRAHM of University of Caen in necropoles (650 graves) have shown there were families of skeletons (men, women and children, tall stature, robust and type never found in Normandy before) burried separately than gallo-romans skeletons (indigenous Norman, gracile, short stature and brachicephals). They have been burried with weapons typically as the ones Roman army gave to Germanic warriors fighting for the Roman Empire. They are all dated from the IVth century.

Batavi presence is attested in the town of Bayeux where a roman garnison of Batavi warriors is mentionned in the notitia dignitatum.

Otherwise Suebi settled in the Western part of Normandy in the area of Coutances where 298 Suebi auxilliaries are welcomed and sent by Constantius Chlorus to defend the coast against Saxons attacks again.

France in 481 :

2- Saxons and Franks settlements, end of the Roman empire

Despite the help of germanic soldiers in Roman Army, they can't face no longer the Saxon and Frank invasions. Celts expelled by Saxons invasions and presence moved to Brittany from late Vth to VIth centuries according to Procope.

From the Vth century we find Saxons settlement in the area of Bayeux where the place has been renamed Otlinga Saxonia. While between 504 and 511 the Franks came from the North to settle in the Northen area of Normandy. The main part of what was Gaul became part of Frankish Kingdom and Normandy part of "Salian Frankish Kingdom".

The first date we have for Saxon settlement is 406 in Normandy but the previous groups who went probably started to settle before. Sources mention that Saxons came to establish with their family in the free areas of Normandy but also in the Boulonnais (Northern France). Louis Guinet, Norman historian from Caen, assumes according to several sources that the areas where settled mainly the Saxons in Normandy were the Bessin (Central coast), the Cotentin (Western), the Pays de Caux and Seine area (Northern).

From the VIth century Normandy was part of Frankish kingdom. Those Saxons had a permanent army called by the Merovingians to defend and fight when needed. They fought against Bretons in 579 and 589 but also against Basques in 626.

According to the toponymy, several places in Central Normandy mainly remain Saxon settlement such as : Cottun (Coltun), Ouistreham (Oistreham), Etréham (Oesterham), Huppain (Hubbehaim), Surrain (Surrehain)...

Patronymy mention as well very common Norman surnames such as Hamel, Duhamel, etc.

By the way, Saxon artefacts have been found in several areas of Normandy :

The presence of Saxons lasts until the VIIth when they assimilated with the locals and Franks and are not mentionned as "Saxons" anymore.

Saxons settled mainly in Normandy, Boulonnais (northern France coast) and some coast of Atlantic France less than in Normandy.

Otherwise the Frank presence is attested quite early and mainly in northern and eastern part of Normandy, nothing on West as Franks came from Belgium and from East.

Frank skeletons and artefacts, found in Evrecy, central Normandy. Circa Vth-VIth centuries.

Several necropolis attest of their presence in several places such as :

-Envermeu : where 800 graves have been found. Several horses were burried close to their owner as the Germanic frank tradition was. Archeologists also found men skeletons (460) with their weapons (seaxand, angon, spatha, francisca and spear, typically used by Franks) others were women with their traditionnal jewelry. They are dated of the Merovingian period, early Middle Age.
-Londinières : where 400 graves have been found. A lot of frank jewelry, pottery, and weapons were there with frank warriors, their wives and children. They are dated from VIIth century.
-Hérouvillette : little village meaning Herulfi villula : "small rural estate of Herulf".
-Douvrend : where 200 skeletons, frank weapons and jewelry have been found and dated from the same period.
-Evrecy : where more than 300 skeletons (from children to old men) have been found and dated from the Vth and VIth centuries with a lot of weapons, pottery and jewelry as well.

By the way, several places and town names are from frankish and what is interesting is to notice they are also in the same area as the frankish necropoles.

IV- Viking settlement and creation of Normandy

1- First viking raids and first Norsemen settlements

At the end of the VIIIth century, Normandy is part of the Frankish Kingdom and called Neustria.

The Western part is badly attacked by viking raids from 790. Those vikings were Norvegians who previously settled in Ireland, called Norse-Gaels or Hiberno-Norse. At the moment that Western part of Normandy is abandonned by French Kingdom as too far and too difficult to control. The first settlement of Hiberno-Norse started quite fast and that population was a mix between Gaellic people of Ireland and Norvegians, close to some Saxon settlements. This is the only place of Normandy where settled Norvegians vikings.

The first raid of Dannish Vikings which is attested was in 820 when 13 langskip (viking boats) entered the first kilometers of the Seine in Northern Normandy. 21 years later in 841 a chief named Asgeir came with his men through the Seine. Those abandonned areas along the Seine river were easy to up and made their raids easier. Vikings asked for money first to the Christians around. They get money from Fontenelle monastery but the others didn't surrender, so Vikings set fire to Jumièges abbay to get what they needed by force. Asgeir and his men set fire to Rouen as well.

Several raids from Dannish vikings followed to this one. In 845 with Ragnar (6000 vikings), 852 with Sigstrygg and Godfrid, 855 with Björn, 858 with Hrsting, 861 with Veland, 887 with the most famous of them : Hrolfr (Rollo).

The Seine area is devasted, French Kingdom started to worry about those Norsemen that no one was about to fight and stop despite the military defense organised by the French Kingdom. Charles le Chauve, current king of France was so weak and afraid of them when they reached Paris he gave them several times money in order they just leave. This was his very end as it only brought more and more Vikings to come and ask money to French Kingdom while they were military starting to settle for years and decades in different basements in Neustria (Normandy). The land was slowly abandonned more and more by frankish army, religious and people to them. At the same moment religious letters to the Pope attest the fear of the local population and Franks : "A Furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine !". This famous desperate sentence was even part of prayers in churches while the raids and first settlements were coming.

Jumièges Abbey, destroyed by Vikings. Northern Normandy, Seine area.

2- Treaty of Saint-Clair sur Epte and creation of Normandy as legit

After the Vikings conquered several places, towns and cities in Normandy, the frankish kingdom was unable to defend against the progression of viking deep right to Chartres and Paris. Charles the Simple, king of France met the viking chief Rollo (Hrolf) for an agreement during the autumn of the year 911. They agreed as French Kingdom gave them the Neustria (which will become Normandy from their name "Norsemen"=Northmen, men from North) in exchange they dont ask for more land, respect French Kingdom and defend the coast against others raids and potential ennemies. Rollo and his men also had to convert to Christianism.

Rollo accepted the terms and Normandy was born. Normandy became a very important and independant powerful land beside the French Kingdom.

First Scandinavian colony was in the Seine area (Northern Normandy) where they replaced the population after indigenous people moved from because of the destruction of a lot of buildings, towns and houses. Norsemen built up new again and established first in this area.

Norsemen families settled in those new fertile lands to farm, a lot of them were farmers. Others were great fishermen and sailors, established on the sea coast. It is attested they came to settle with women and cattle in several areas.

Thor's hammers pendants found near to the Seine where Norsemen settled. Circa 900.



Viking sword found in Normandy, circa IXth century.



Structure of vikings's towns in Normandy



Reconstruction of a Scandinavian house in the Seine area, found in the town of Mirville. Circa XIth century.

Their settlement is also attested by the rich toponymy from norse we find everywhere in Normandy (from West to East and from South to North). They adopted the gallo-romance language alterred by francique and transformed it with their vocabulary from Norse. Here was born the Norman language, from latin syntax, with latin, frank roots and great norse imput in vocabulary and pronounciation.

It's quite hard to count every places and towns names which come from Norse as they are so many it would be difficult to make a map of it. Historians mainly are dividing them in several categories such as :

-Those describing the nature of the place (with the suffixes : bec, dale, londe, homme, hou, hogue, heu, houle, mare, fleur, grune, vic, haule, clif, hague, hoc, etc...)
-Those describing human activity, owner of the place, referring to Gods or Norsemen names (with the suffixes : tot, torp, bu, beuf, cote, hus, gate, gard, tuit etc...)

Also we find many prefixes in toponymy from norse in Normandy to precise how is the place with adjective such as the places Boslbec, Boullebec, Bolbec from "bolr" (the trunk of tree) on "bec" (the creek). Honfleur town for example is made of Húnaflói, meaning the angular embouchure and they are all accurate as they describe exactly how the place where the town built is concretely.
Even the names of creeks, river, forests have been given by Norsemen. For example the Orbec creek, from Ørbæk meaning the creek full of gravel. Another example for a forest : Bouquelon, from Boki-lundr meaning the beech-wood.

Norse vocabulary which passed in Norman language to describe and name the places considering their nature.

More than 1400 names of places / towns in Normandy come from norse (460 with the suffix "villa" + Norse name ; 350 with the suffix "tot" and more than 630 with other Norse suffix or prefix) for a total of 3232 towns in Normandy so 43% of all the toponyms we find here. This is not a few impact if we consider that imput is found overall everywhere in Normandy.

3- Viking society in Normandy

Organisation of the society in Normandy comes from the Vikings as well.

The first example we have in mind is their marriage More Dannico, specially for the chiefs and Nobles who remained for several generations. This custom allowed a man to have one wife he married and a second one called "frilla" which was the one he has chosen by love but not married. She frilla was not protected by Law to get heritage if the man would die instead of the legit wife. Also the frilla could be from different class as the man. If the man was a chief or important person he could get a slave frilla. Their union and children were legit in society and recognized as legit children but in Normandy that fact led William the Conqueror (son of the frilla of the Jarl of Normandy) to prove he was legit as the only son of his father to get the tittle once he was dead. He fought against rebellous christians who said he was not legit to get his place. Once he get it and became Duke of Normandy he became very good Christian, close to the Pope and never had any frilla. He is the first of the legacy who has broken with that custom from Vikings.

People were divided in several classes such as the clan chiefs / earls (Jarl), free peasants (Bóndi) and slaves (Thræll).

The free peasants have their own heriditary land to farm and when they settled in Normandy with their families they had their own that we find in the terms "mansloth" (individual land of the free man) and later with the Norman surname "Vavasseur". A lot of places, towns remain in Normandy they were the property of a Norseman because the place is called with the Norse name of the owner. For example the latin suffixe "villa" means "rural land" and the prefix gives us the name of his owner such as : Grainville (from Grimmvilla, Grimm's rural land), Tourville (from Þórrvilla, Thor's rural land) and this is specific toponymy we only find in Normandy (France where we find towns with "villa" as suffix remain germanic or romance names, not norsemen names). But we also found in other names of places such as Herboutacre (from Herboldacre, Herbold's field), Yvetot (from Ivetoht, Ive's place to farm). We find more than 850 examples of towns / places in Normandy with those terms reffering to free Norsemen peasants (Normandy contains 3232 towns). 460 Norman towns contains the suffix "villa" + name of Norseman owner, 350 Norman towns contains the norse suffix "toht".

Towns with the suffix "villa" in France.

The Anglo-Scandinavians colons used massively the used of this suffix from the gallo-roman term "villa" added with the germanic or norse name of the owner.
In Normandy with norse names and in Northern / Eastern France with germanic names.

Concerning the law, vikings also kept their own way to deal with criminality such as we know the worst sentence in Viking society was to get the status of "útlagi" meaning "outlaw" and was still present in Normandy where we find in old charts the term "ullac" as sentence. From the moment a person became an útlagi he/she was not protected by law anymore and anyone could kill this person by right.

Also a specific term for Law from Viking society was called the "Coutume" in Normandy and lasted until the french Revolution. This Law was above all humans, it was a fact to respect, to follow and to accept our individual fate and has to respect the rules and customs of his clan and his people. The viking Law still remain in the Anglo-Norman islands today.

About the religion, Vikings who settled in Normandy have been asked by French Kingdom to become Christians and receive baptism. We know through the centuries after several generations of settlement they adopted Christianity in Normandy but the first generations were still highly pagans. One simple fact is to notice how many names (surnames, towns etc) come from the god Thor in Normandy or refers to pagan rituals.

Surnames : Toutain, Toustain (Thorsteinn, Thor's stone), Turgot (Thorgautr), Théroulde, Troude, Touroude, Trudeau (Thorvaldr), Turgis (Thorgisl, Thor's hostage), Turquetil, Torquetil (Thorketill), etc...

Towns : Touffreville (Thorfridr), Tourlaville (Thorir+villa), Tourville (Thor+villa), Trouville (Thorulfr), Torqueville (Thorkell), Trémauville (Thormodr) etc...

As well the Saint Protector of Normandy is Saint Michael which reminds the same attributes as Thor (protector, warrior of Justice).

This settlement lasted for long until the Duke of Normandy William conquered England and Normans started to settle in England. Until the french Revolution (1789) Normandy lived independantly from the french Kingdom, once annexed to England (100 years war), once annexed to France. This land has always been mostly rural and people didn't breed with french people or extra-Normans for centuries, allowing a complex ethnicity made of celtic roots, some romance but overall germanic and nordic ethnicity.


SOURCES :

Part III

-http://histoirefrance.e-monsite.com/pages/histoire-de-france/l-empire-romain-jules-cesar-pax-romana-fin-de-l-empire-christianisme/
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_de_la_Normandie#Crises_du_IIIe.C2.A0si.C3 .A8cle_et_mutations_du_Bas-Empire
-http://his.nicolas.free.fr/Panorama/PagePanorama.php?mnemo=FinEmpire
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxon_Shore
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleury-sur-Orne#Toponymie
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almen%C3%AAches#Toponymie
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airan#Toponymie
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9nouville#Toponymie
-http://www.persee.fr/doc/antiq_0770-2817_1983_num_52_1_2106_t1_0606_0000_2
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayeux#Origines
-Luc Buchet, Dossiers d'archéologie n°208 : Les hommes du Moyen Âge
-http://www.histoire-normandie.fr/la-normandie-avant-les-normands/la-decomposition-de-lempire-romain
-Procope, Guerre des Gots, IV, 20.
-http://books.openedition.org/puc/1332
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxons#En_Gaulehttps://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxons#En_Gaule
-http://histoiredelamanche.free.fr/saxon.html
-http://www.persee.fr/doc/annor_0003-4134_1963_num_13_4_4542
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envermeu#.C3.89poque_m.C3.A9rovingienne
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londini%C3%A8res#Histoire
-Isabelle Rogeret, La Seine-Maritime 76, in Carte archéologique de la Gaule, éditions de la Fondation Maison des Sciences de l'Homme, Paris 1998.
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9rouvillette#Toponymie
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douvrend#Histoire
-http://www.inrap.fr/une-necropole-merovingienne-complete-mise-au-jour-evrecy-dans-le-calvados-5354

Part IV

-Les Vikings en Normandie, Georges Bernage.
-Des Vikings à la Grande Armada, la Normandie de 911 à aujourd'hui, Gérard Denizeau.
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse%E2%80%93Gaels
-http://www.patrimoine-normand.com/index-fiche-32349.html
-https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Latin_m%C3%A9rovingien
-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toponymie_normande
-http://www.unicaen.fr/mrsh/craham/revue/tabularia/print.php?dossier=dossier2&file=05beaurepaire.xml
-http://www.apra.asso.fr/APRA/Articles/32-VikingsEnNormandieLesEaux.pdf
-http://www.persee.fr/doc/annor_0003-4134_1960_num_10_4_6697
-http://www.persee.fr/doc/annor_0003-4134_1963_num_13_4_4542

[Robocop]

Ilma this opening thread is on level of some serious seminar for University, truly excellent work, 10/10.

I think you would get highest rate on University Archaeology & History where I studied.

Bravo, there is nothin else to say but; BRAVO.

This is one of the best scientific threads ever on TA.

[Grace O'Malley]

Fascinating Ilma. I'm interested in Normandy and Brittany as they have a high amount of British & Irish on 23andme. They appear a very similar mix to South Eastern England. One small thing and I hope you don't mind me correcting but it is Hiberno-Norse not Hiberno-Nordic. The Vikings that went to Ireland and Scotland were mainly Norse so the mixed population were called Norse-Gaels or in Irish Gall Ghaeil which basically translates as foreign Gael. I wasn't aware that the Hiberno-Norse went to Normandy (not sure if that would explain some of the M222 found in the Cotentin). Apparently a lot of Vikings were expelled from Ireland and went to quite a few places including Northern England and Iceland. Interesting that they went to Normandy as well.

Northern French do appear to have a similar mix to especially southern English. There also appears to have been a lot of Northern French input into the British Isles.

[Ilma]

Fascinating Ilma. I'm interested in Normandy and Brittany as they have a high amount of British & Irish on 23andme. They appear a very similar mix to South Eastern England. One small thing and I hope you don't mind me correcting but it is Hiberno-Norse not Hiberno-Nordic. The Vikings that went to Ireland and Scotland were mainly Norse so the mixed population were called Norse-Gaels or in Irish Gall Ghaeil which basically translates as foreign Gael. I wasn't aware that the Hiberno-Norse went to Normandy (not sure if that would explain some of the M222 found in the Cotentin). Apparently a lot of Vikings were expelled from Ireland and went to quite a few places including Northern England and Iceland. Interesting that they went to Normandy as well.

Northern French do appear to have a similar mix to especially southern English. There also appears to have been a lot of Northern French input into the British Isles.

You're totally right to correct me, as I'm not good speaking english so 3/4 of my sources are in french and had some trouble to translate things correctly sometimes... thank you

So yes, the ones who have been expelled from Ireland to Northern England and Iceland were the same as the ones who settled in the Cotentin according to my sources. This is very specific as they only settled that place of Normandy.

IMO the similarities you find between region of Sussex, southern England etc is also pretty correlated with the Conquest of Normans because many men of William the Conqueror received lands there and established after 1066 (Hastings battle). I have no data currently about this imput of Normans in Southern England but I think that can be related. Also Saxons settled a lot in central Normandy as you read and they also settled in England, so basically when men of William the Conqueror went to settle in England they were themselves from central Normandy (aka from Saxons + Dannish ancestry). So quite similar I think in term of ethnicity.

BTW Normandy is closer to Belgium ethnically speaking due to those common settlement for centuries than to French Kingdom (any area). I would be very interested to see DNA from Belgians today beside Native Normans Also with Southern English people, would be interesting to see how close they are ethnically speaking.

Thanks a lot for reading and taking time to answer and add those informations, very apprciated !

[TheForeigner]

Very high quality and informative thread.

[Grace O'Malley]

You're totally right to correct me, as I'm not good speaking english so 3/4 of my sources are in french and had some trouble to translate things correctly sometimes... thank you

So yes, the ones who have been expelled from Ireland to Northern England and Iceland were the same as the ones who settled in the Cotentin according to my sources. This is very specific as they only settled that place of Normandy.

IMO the similarities you find between region of Sussex, southern England etc is also pretty correlated with the Conquest of Normans because many men of William the Conqueror received lands there and established after 1066 (Hastings battle). I have no data currently about this imput of Normans in Southern England but I think that can be related. Also Saxons settled a lot in central Normandy as you read and they also settled in England, so basically when men of William the Conqueror went to settle in England they were themselves from central Normandy (aka from Saxons + Dannish ancestry). So quite similar I think in term of ethnicity.

BTW Normandy is closer to Belgium ethnically speaking due to those common settlement for centuries than to French Kingdom (any area). I would be very interested to see DNA from Belgians today beside Native Normans Also with Southern English people, would be interesting to see how close they are ethnically speaking.

Thanks a lot for reading and taking time to answer and add those informations, very apprciated !

Thank you for the very interesting thread. I've read some dna studies on Brittany which showed they were closer to the Irish. It is interesting that these Norse-Gaels went to the Cotentin and this is where M222 was found. Genetics is fascinating.

Your English is excellent and thanks for translating that information. The French sources are much more likely to be correct.

[Philip Latinowitz]

Thanks for posting, great read. Have there ever been tested DNA remains from medieval Vikings that settled in Normandy ?

[asulf]

Bravo Ilma excellent work !

[RHouallet]

Fascinant!