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Thread: What makes religion more legitimate than atheism or nationalism?

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    None of them are legitimate. All look to the past and are thus regressive and degenerate. We should look to the future rather than looking to the past and to tradition or "traditional morals"

    “Let us demolish these fetid blocks of security, of tradition, of certainty, of unquestioning worship…..let us be murderors [sic] of the past! The obscene progression of regression shall be halted by us, The New Blockaders! Let us be anonymous. O brothers and sisters, let us work in subtle ways, and then at dawn our hour of glory shall come! Let us be chameleons, let us enter their ranks unnoticed…only attacks from behind ever succeed! Let us sever this parasite called history, it has nothing to do with us…this is the future! This is now!”

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceT View Post
    Discuss.
    Religion is a personal matter as human beings are spiritual beings.

    Atheism is the promotion of degeneracy and marxism

    Nationalism is the promotion to protect and improve ones nation
    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

    Definition of untrustworthy and loose character are those that don't believe in God.


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    To compare such broad categories we need to understand what are they about. Social evolution of our civilization could be loosely divided into traditionalism and modernity.

    Universal characteristic of traditionalism is metaphysical perception of the world where everything around us is viewed as creation of divine force. In this paradigm divine being considered to be the center of the universe and all humans as lower beings. History of humanity is viewed as one long degradation slide from life in Heaven with God(s) to Armageddon, today is worse than yesterday and tomorrow will be worse than today. It's exactly same for all metaphysical worldviews from Rome and Mecca to most distant corners of Amazon and Papua New Guinea.

    In this paradigm life of a man is revolving around learning the laws of supreme being and attempts to better themselves via applying these laws in everyday activities to get as close to the supreme being as possible. Just because He is the only thing that truly matters.

    Then there is modernity. It started from 16th century with reformation and placed man to be the center of universe. For this paradigm there is a progress that makes our lives better every day. Every next day is better than the previous. Intelligence of a man is considered to be the most important tool to guide us in life. It is believed that there is no problem in this world our intelligence cannot resolve. It created wide variety of technical devices that made our lives easier, comfortable, safer. Since man is a center of universe now a human life is considered to be the most valuable thing and entire technical progress is revolving around making it as safe as possible.

    In this paradigm a man is essentially free of any moral obligations as there is no higher moral authority. He can live his life any way he desires, pursue highest goals or waste it on petty entertainment.

    While initially modernity appeared as phenomena of church reformation eventually it ended up with total denial of metaphysical perception of universe from which atheism had emerged. Development of means of travel and communication resulted in unification of small social entities into larger ones hence nations appeared. With that came nationalism.

    From that we can see that religious moral is based on 'word of God', often claimed to be given to people by divine being himself. It's important to note that vast majority of its history humanity was living under dominance of traditionalism and its fine tuned to maximize our chances of survival.

    Contrary to that morals of modernity, for which atheism and nationalism are big parts, are based purely on human intelligence. Modern laws were created out of necessity to accommodate needs of ever growing numbers of people living in dense urban setting.

    I personally wouldn't make any claims about legitimacy of one over another. My only concern with modernism is that I'm perfectly aware of limitations of human intelligence and widespread inability to see bigger picture. That often leads people towards logical decisions that aren't that logical afterwards and end up with tragic consequences. In traditional setting it's not an issue since it has been polished by many millenias of human evolution.

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    There isn't a single Atheist ancient culture that has left its mark on the world, there also isn't a single ancient atheist nation that is still present on this earth to this day. Monotheism has survived every regime, every period of history because it is just stronger and doesn't promote individualism.



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    Arguing this assumes that those who read it understand what is being said, which will most likely not be the case as it requires great mental capacity. Furthermore, simple arguments tend to not go very far. This is why I illustrate more than I argue. What I say is true, but it is not put forth in the usual argumentative, legalistic style.

    Atheism isn't legitimate for a mountain of reasons. One central reason is that the concept of atheism, the term itself being misleading, is that it is materialistic. Materialism claims that the world is purely quantitative and that quality doesn't exist. This is a fundamental assumption of the modern world, too, which is why the modern world is inherently based on falsehood and brings only corruption and evil. Incidentally, modernity is also the dawn of egalitarianism. Total equality is only possible in a world of inequality if one does away with the concept of quality. The final end of such a world is meaninglessness, absurdity, nihilism. In such a world, there is no truth, because everything is quantity, just more or less without any qualifications. Materialists are usually not this consistent, but that's their own fault. And after all, consistency is in itself a qualitative, so in this sense they are consistently inconsistent. This is a dead world. The mind is dead and illusory. Your eyes don't see trees, rocks or rivers, because these terms are qualitative in nature. There are merely different forms or shapes of mass, but not even that, because even this is implicative of quality. It implies something permanent and universal when there are no such things, all is flux, change. When we see green grass, we do not really see green grass, because it implies at once the universal sameness one instance of greenness or grassness has with another instance of greenness or grassness (there is no -ness, mind) alongside the universal distinction of one thing from another. Even talking of matter is meaningless, because it is qualitative, universal. Such a view is nihilstic, dead, lifeless, through and through.

    As for its opposition to nationalism, there is no such opposition by necessity, never has it been implied by me. But, as I said to begin with, what I say requires great mental capacity to understand. It's clear that many people who read what I say don't understand it and confuse it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unome View Post
    Should a murderer live or die after they are caught and convicted? To make a judgment, or even have an opinion, constitutes a moral position. Thus everybody has morals whether they want to admit them or not. The more morals a person have, the more invested and committed to a system they become. Morals are about what people value, what ought or should be, how people judge each-other, and how people act and reciprocate actions (karma). Amoral people (atheists) try to deny the existence of morality and superior judgments; but this is false. Some moral decisions (judgments) are better than others.
    Moral has nothing to do with religions or atheism, and one cannot mistake spirituality with religions. To deny all morality is to be moral, for the accepted morality is the morality of respectability and that is not moral we want, at least I dont want such moral of respectability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robocop View Post
    Moral has nothing to do with religions or atheism, and one cannot mistake spirituality with religions. To deny all morality is to be moral, for the accepted morality is the morality of respectability and that is not moral we want, at least I dont want such moral of respectability.
    Morals are deeply entwined and obviously part of religions because religions dictate to their followers what they ought or ought not do throughout life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unome View Post
    Morals are deeply entwined and obviously part of religions because religions dictate to their followers what they ought or ought not do throughout life.
    Moral is part of religions not because religions have anything to do with Moral but because they use moral into purposes of religion institutional propaganda, fairytale which is badly written, Lord of the Rings books are better written than religious books.

    Can we discard the morality of society which is really quite immoral? Its morality has become respectable, approved by religious sanctions; and the morality of counter-revolution also soon becomes as immoral and respectable as that of well-established society. This morality is to go to war, to kill, to be aggressive, to seek power, to give hate its place; it is all the cruelty and injustice of established authority. This is not moral and true moral never had anything to do with religions in the first place.

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    Depends on the "religion".

    Christianity is an ethical religion influenced by neoplatonism.

    Islam is an unethical, moral relativitist religion. It's not even a religion to begin with. It is a cultist, totalitarian system with political goals, under the guise of religion.

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