Threats Target Macedonia Opposition Talks to Form Govt

[Laberia]

3/13/17 Chris Deliso on the foreign provocateurs exacerbating Macedonia’s political crisis
By Scott Horton - March 13, 2017

Chris Deliso, director of the independent Balkanalysis.com, discusses the three-year-long political crisis in Macedonia brought about when a consortium of internal and external agitators tried to replace the long-ruling conservative party. These agitators included Macedonia’s leftist Social Democrats, Albania’s prime minister, European intelligence agencies, George Soros’s Open Society Foundation, and the US Ambassador to Macedonia.

Podcast (thescotthortonshow): Play in new window | Download
https://www.libertarianinstitute.org...itical-crisis/

Of course, there are different interest groups that move around. But the problem is not that. The problem is that FYROM, or rather a part of the elite of this country, dreams of taking the place of Serbia in the political design of Russia. They claim to be a key figure of the Russian policy in the Balkans. But FYROM is an American investment. Gruevski is repeating the same mistakes Milošević them. This is the reason of the crisis in FYROM. It's an conflict between the Great Powers. In FYROM, the nature of this conflict is political between two major parties represented by Zaev and Gruevski. Gruevski want to convert this political conflict in an interethnic conflict. This is the reason why this Lion from firomski didn't answer to my question.

[MKLion]

Of course, there are different interest groups that move around. But the problem is not that. The problem is that FYROM, or rather a part of the elite of this country, dreams of taking the place of Serbia in the political design of Russia. They claim to be a key figure of the Russian policy in the Balkans. But FYROM is an American investment. Gruevski is repeating the same mistakes Milošević them. This is the reason of the crisis in FYROM. It's an conflict between the Great Powers. In FYROM, the nature of this conflict is political between two major parties represented by Zaev and Gruevski. Gruevski want to convert this political conflict in an interethnic conflict. This is the reason why this Lion from firomski didn't answer to my question.

What question? About a Chinese person asking me about information? LoL

[Laberia]

What question? About a Chinese person asking me about information? LoL

No, i asked about the reasons of the crisis in your country. But seems that you don't know what's happened there. Forget it. Maybe there are others, your compatriots who can explain this.

[Albobalboa]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedo...lections,_2017

Local elections are what to wait for now, they will likely paint a clearer picture of Macedonia's ethnic structure than anything else - until a population census is done.

Albanian parties - Albanian voters

SDSM - Bulgarians, other Macedonian ethnic minorities, mixed ethnicity people, Albanians

VMRO - Macedonian voters

[The Illyrian Warrior]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedo...lections,_2017

Local elections are what to wait for now, they will likely paint a clearer picture of Macedonia's ethnic structure than anything else - until a population census is done.

Albanian parties - Albanian voters

SDSM - Bulgarians, other Macedonian ethnic minorities, mixed ethnicity people, Albanians

VMRO - Macedonian voters

Actually local election will make things even more confusing regarding demographic picture as Albanians may vote for SDSM candidates in decent numbers, also you'll have once again higher turnout number among Slavo-Macedonian then among Albanians additionally with continuous abuse of dead voters who haven't been cleared from voter lists which benefits Slavo-Macedonians but surely harms Albanian bloc alot, besides of this, you'll hear problems with some Albanians voters who will not be allowed to vote inspite of being FYROM citizens for many years already, something like this have been happening in every election.....So all these will blur actual demographic mirror, I'm sure MKLion as usual will claim the opposite but the truth is this.

[MKLion]

Actually local election will make things even more confusing regarding demographic picture as Albanians may vote for SDSM candidates in decent numbers, also you'll have once again higher turnout number among Slavo-Macedonian then among Albanians additionally with continuous abuse of dead voters who haven't been cleared from voter lists which benefits Slavo-Macedonians but surely harms Albanian bloc alot, besides of this, you'll hear problems with some Albanians voters who will not be allowed to vote inspite of being FYROM citizens for many years already, something like this have been happening in every election.....So all these will blur actual demographic mirror, I'm sure MKLion as usual will claim the opposite but the truth is this.

LoL its like you already know what I'm about to say.

I still firmly believe that the reason the voter roll in Macedonia is kept at approximately 1.8 million registered voters is so that the political parties can all manipulate the elections. While I dont think it really matters in most areas the only real areas it matters for Albanian vs. Macedonian mayors are places like Kicevo and Struga and other municipalities with mixed ethnicities where the votes are close for each ethnic candidate. Remember Macedonian municipalities are going to get Macedonian mayors and Albanian municipalities will get Albanian mayors.

Ive said that in general Albanian parties together almost always receive around 220-240000 votes in most elections. Its been this way since independence. You could argue that there could be some cross voting but in general Macedonians vote for Macedonian parties and Albanians vote for Albanian parties (except for the only 25000 Albanians who voted for SDSM in 2016).

In the 2013 Local elections the Albanians cast a total of approximately 248000 votes for Albanian parties. You can go through each municipality and add the votes for the Albanian parties from this link if you like


http://217.16.84.26/Results.aspx?Rac...out=0&LangID=1



So which stats or links or EVIDENCE do you have where Albanians are prevented from voting? Remember if you emigrate from Macedonia and are now a Norwegian Albanian, Swedish Albanian, American Albanian then you don't have the right to vote in Macedonia anymore. Only people who are born in Macedonia and actually live there and are citizens have the right to vote.

If anything Albanians from the Diaspora who have already legally emigrated hold onto their Macedonian citizenship and fly back to Macedonia to participate in local elections to elect Albanian mayors then fly back and live in Western Europe. So Albanians who have emigrated and have no roll in Macedonian society through elections can effect the every day lives of the citizens of a different country. This is WRONG and this is why I am a firm believer that the voter roll has to be cleaned up in Macedonia. This is why a properly done census and purging of the voter rolls are so important for the next government.

You can read this article here its called


Homeland Calling: Political Mobilization of the Albanian-Macedonian Diaspora for the 2013 Local Elections in Macedonia

www.etd.ceu.hu/2013/agich_erlin.pdf


Its a very good read. It states that approximately 5000-8000 Albanians flew back to Macedonia during the 2013 Local elections to vote under the "Uskana 2013" project to elect an Albanian Mayor Fatmir Dehari for the first time.

If so many Albanians lived in Kicevo region why did 5-8000 have to fly back to ensure that an Albanian Mayor was elected? Were they not confident that Albanians in Zajas and Oslmoej have enough numbers to elect one without the help of the Diaspora? Also would you not call this an Albanian voting a "Voting Manipulation" in the 2013 elections? Without these votes a Macedonian Mayor would have been elected. Remember these are Albanians who have legally Emigrated (not ones who have gone off for seasonal work but still live in Macedonia).

[HERK]

If so many Albanians lived in Kicevo region why did 5-8000 have to fly back to ensure that an Albanian Mayor was elected? Were they not confident that Albanians in Zajas and Oslmoej have enough numbers to elect one without the help of the Diaspora? Also would you not call this an Albanian voting a "Voting Manipulation" in the 2013 elections? Without these votes a Macedonian Mayor would have been elected. Remember these are Albanians who have legally Emigrated (not ones who have gone off for seasonal work but still live in Macedonia).

I don't see any problem with this, even though they are not living in Macedonia they do have the right to come back and cast their vote, not living there doesn't mean you cannot vote,these people may still have properties and family in Macedonia.

[MKLion]

I don't see any problem with this, even though they are not living in Macedonia they do have the right to come back and cast their vote, not living there doesn't mean you cannot vote,these people may still have properties and family in Macedonia.

So by that logic I have a right to vote as well? I have property and family in Macedonia as well. What about my parents who emigrated when they were 18 years old and fully live in Canada? Them too? Almost every country in the world wont allow people to vote who emigrate from their country. Why would it be OK for the Albanians to do so?

The problem with this is that a government policy, regulations and urban and rural planning depends on knowing how many people support certain policies and how many are in the country. So a census and voting patterns have to show what the reality is for the people who actually live in the country. When you have people voting and counted on the census who dont officially live in the country state resources are allocated to them when they dont actually need them.

The problem is that the government has to set a standard for who lives and doesnt live in the country and create policy reflected to that. Hopefully once they clean up the voter rolls this wont happen anymore.

[Albobalboa]

So by that logic I have a right to vote as well? I have property and family in Macedonia as well. What about my parents who emigrated when they were 18 years old and fully live in Canada? Them too? Almost every country in the world wont allow people to vote who emigrate from their country. Why would it be OK for the Albanians to do so?

The problem with this is that a government policy, regulations and urban and rural planning depends on knowing how many people support certain policies and how many are in the country. So a census and voting patterns have to show what the reality is for the people who actually live in the country. When you have people voting and counted on the census who dont officially live in the country state resources are allocated to them when they dont actually need them.

The problem is that the government has to set a standard for who lives and doesnt live in the country and create policy reflected to that. Hopefully once they clean up the voter rolls this wont happen anymore.

The emigrants that vote, are they still officially citizens of RoM? If so, then of course they should be able to vote and every other right that citizens of Macedonia have. If not, then I agree with you.

[Albobalboa]

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/31723/1/



The guy on the scooter.. Macedonians are cute as fuck honestly, if we ignore the part where they want to remove any trace of Albanians in their country.