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Thread: Threats Target Macedonia Opposition Talks to Form Govt

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    The leaders of Albanian parties in Macedonia - now part of the government led by Social Democrat leader Zoran Zaev - gathered on Wednesday in Skopje to make sure the so-called "Albanian platform" becomes part of the new government's agenda.

    The platform - signed by the leaders of the main parties representing ethnic Albanians in Macedonia with the help of Albania in January - took on new importance after the parties assumed a kingmaker role in the formation of a new government after the general election on December 11.

    The document centres on the demand for full political and economic equality between Macedonians and Albanians in the Macedonian state and on the status of the Albanian language.

    The meeting was called by the head of the Democratic Union for Integration, DUI, Ali Ahmeti, and included representatives of the Movement for Reform - Democratic Party of Albanians, LR PDSH, led by Ziadin Sela, and the Democratic Party of Albanians, DPA.

    However, the BESA movement, which is in opposition to the government, did not attend, seeking more guarantees that parties in collaboration with the Social Democrats will implement the platform and a concrete draft on declaring Albanian an official language throughout Macedonia.

    Speaking after the three-hour meeting, Ahmeti said the majority of points in the platform were already part of the Macedonia government program.

    "We have done a good job until now," Ahmeti said. However, he said no deadline had been agreed about making Albanian as an official language throughout Macedonia.

    At the same time, he emphasised their first result of the platform had been regular visits that Macedonian officials have started to the neighbouring countries of Bulgaria and Greece.

    The "Albanian platform" triggered fierce debate in Macedonia, after the former ruling VMRO DPMNE party, the President and assorted nationalists claimed it endangered the stability and integrity of the country.

    Tensions rose further after the Albanian parties refused to join Nikola Gruevski’s VMRO DPMNE in forming a new government.

    Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov’s initially refused to grant Zaev a mandate to form a government because of Zaev's agreement to implement the platform.

    Boiling ethnic tensions culminated in nationalists staging a violent attack on Social Democrat and Albanian MPs in the Macedonian parliament on April 27.

    Albanians make up about a quarter of the population of Macedonia, concentrated in the north and west of the country.

    https://www.balkaninsight.com/en/art...ent-06-28-2017

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    With the new Macedonian government, new statistical publications have stopped being interesting to the common folk.

    http://www.stat.gov.mk/pdf/2017/2.1.17.27.pdf

    No more ethnicities being included.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albobalboa View Post
    "Unless more Albanians enter the conflict" Haha you cuckoid Greek. Here's one for you, militarily Turkey would shit on you, both Cyprus and Greece combined. Worry about your own geopolitical threats kiddo.
    No, Turkey wouldn't shit upon Greece. Right now the vast majority of the Turkish army hates Sultan Mad Terrorist, and it has been castrated as its' performance in Syria has shown. Basically the Turks are fucked, if they start a war they shall be fighting against NATO...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    No, Turkey wouldn't shit upon Greece. Right now the vast majority of the Turkish army hates Sultan Mad Terrorist, and it has been castrated as its' performance in Syria has shown. Basically the Turks are fucked, if they start a war they shall be fighting against NATO...
    Obviously whatever resistance they met in Syria was stronger than any Greek resistance during the Cyprus war it seems.

    The rest is just wishful thinking on your part. Let's face it, we both know NATO wouldn't do jack shit if the Turks actually took Cyprus, it would be a 2nd Crimea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albobalboa View Post
    Obviously whatever resistance they met in Syria was stronger than any Greek resistance during the Cyprus war it seems.
    It was because the Turks invaded Cyprus after the mad dictator in Greece tried to overthrow Makarios, and thus the Turks invaded in the midst of a Greek civil war. Now the situation is reversed, the Turks are having their mad Sultan starting a civil war.

    The rest is just wishful thinking on your part. Let's face it, we both know NATO wouldn't do jack shit if the Turks actually took Cyprus, it would be a 2nd Crimea.
    As a matter of fact French ships are already protecting their drills just offshore of Cyprus, and the Turks who threatened all sorts of things are just talking, no action whatsoever.

    If the French/Italians find gas in Cyprus, the Americans shall go next:



    There are ships from six countries near Cyprus, all of which oppose Turkey!!!

    Greece, U.S.A., Israel, Egypt, France, and another one I don't remember...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    It was because the Turks invaded Cyprus after the mad dictator in Greece tried to overthrow Makarios, and thus the Turks invaded in the midst of a Greek civil war. Now the situation is reversed, the Turks are having their mad Sultan starting a civil war.

    As a matter of fact French ships are already protecting their drills just offshore of Cyprus, and the Turks who threatened all sorts of things are just talking, no action whatsoever.

    If the French/Italians find gas in Cyprus, the Americans shall go next:



    There are ships from six countries near Cyprus, all of which oppose Turkey!!!

    Greece, U.S.A., Israel, Egypt, France, and another one I don't remember...
    Nice little excuses you've got there, seems you've got an excuse for everything. Fact is the Greeks thought they were tough and wanted to force the Turks out, they got geopolitically bitchsmacked into cuckmode. That's the truth and you know it. If Albanians now tried to erase Serbs from Kosovo and in response Serbia took over 1/3 of Kosovo you wouldn't have been talking about all these excuses little boy, so quit the bullshit. Anyone that reads about it knows exactly what it's about, that's why in the end the rest of Europe wouldn't really do anything about it other than non-recognition.

    Keep relying on your allies to save you, Turks don't really seem to have any fear when it comes to burning whatever bridge needs to be burned for them to achieve any geopolitical goal though. You can talk about oil all you want, and how that's going to make everyone rich bla bla, but we both know that nothing is going to change in Cyprus, 1/3 is gone and controlled by the Turks.

    There's no surprise why Greek elite is so worried about Turkey, Turkey has a key geopolitical positioning and has massive room to maneuver politically due to them being so geographically open and in the center of trade routes. Turkey right now is going from strength to strength despite arguably facing the most resistance they've faced in decades, all of Europe is plotting against them. Turkey's GDP grew more in 2016 than both Cyprus' and Greece's, imagine that despite all the current troubles.

    In short, quit barking so much no one believes you have any bite, your geopolitical enemy is so far superior that it just becomes ridiculous. This is like Albania threatening Greece in a conventional war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albobalboa View Post
    Nice little excuses you've got there, seems you've got an excuse for everything. Fact is the Greeks thought they were tough and wanted to force the Turks out, they got geopolitically bitchsmacked into cuckmode. That's the truth and you know it.
    It wasn't "the Greeks" moron. Do you think that the dictator Ioannidis asked any Greek about his decision to overthrow Makarios? Do you know what a junta is?

    If Albanians now tried to erase Serbs from Kosovo and in response Serbia took over 1/3 of Kosovo you wouldn't have been talking about all these excuses little boy, so quit the bullshit.
    If Albanians tried to erase the Serbs from Kossovo any further than they have already done, Serbia would take all of Kossovo and you wouldn't have an excuse because both Albania and Kossovo are nominally democracies.

    Anyone that reads about it knows exactly what it's about, that's why in the end the rest of Europe wouldn't really do anything about it other than non-recognition.

    Keep relying on your allies to save you, Turks don't really seem to have any fear when it comes to burning whatever bridge needs to be burned for them to achieve any geopolitical goal though. You can talk about oil all you want, and how that's going to make everyone rich bla bla, but we both know that nothing is going to change in Cyprus, 1/3 is gone and controlled by the Turks.
    Greece is not going to try to retake Cyprus, but eventually it shall confront and destroy Turkey when Sultan Mad Terrorist shall attack Greece in order to prevent a civil war in Turkey itself. Nevertheless he cannot avoid a civil war because he is pushing the Kemalists hard, and since the economy is backtracking, the Turks won't follow the Sultan in his choices. The civil war in Turkey is a matter of time.

    There's no surprise why Greek elite is so worried about Turkey, Turkey has a key geopolitical positioning and has massive room to maneuver politically due to them being so geographically open and in the center of trade routes. Turkey right now is going from strength to strength despite arguably facing the most resistance they've faced in decades, all of Europe is plotting against them. Turkey's GDP grew more in 2016 than both Cyprus' and Greece's, imagine that despite all the current troubles.
    The Turkish GDP grew because of internal consumption, not because of exports. Many Turkish companies are very high in debt in $US and the Turkish lira has taken a nosedive against most currencies during the last couple of years. The private sector in Turkey is facing bankruptcy and two out of three major credit agencies have rated the Turkish bonds as junk. Do you really watch the news kiddo?

    In short, quit barking so much no one believes you have any bite, your geopolitical enemy is so far superior that it just becomes ridiculous. This is like Albania threatening Greece in a conventional war.
    Nope, Turkey is FINISHED. Sultan Mad Terrorist has effectively disarmed the army because he doesn't trust the army, he uses the police to control Turkey. He went as far as faking the coup last year in order to destroy the Turkish army, amongst others!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    It wasn't "the Greeks" moron. Do you think that the dictator Ioannidis asked any Greek about his decision to overthrow Makarios? Do you know what a junta is?If Albanians tried to erase the Serbs from Kossovo any further than they have already done, Serbia would take all of Kossovo and you wouldn't have an excuse because both Albania and Kossovo are nominally democracies.Greece is not going to try to retake Cyprus, but eventually it shall confront and destroy Turkey when Sultan Mad Terrorist shall attack Greece in order to prevent a civil war in Turkey itself. Nevertheless he cannot avoid a civil war because he is pushing the Kemalists hard, and since the economy is backtracking, the Turks won't follow the Sultan in his choices. The civil war in Turkey is a matter of time.The Turkish GDP grew because of internal consumption, not because of exports. Many Turkish companies are very high in debt in $US and the Turkish lira has taken a nosedive against most currencies during the last couple of years. The private sector in Turkey is facing bankruptcy and two out of three major credit agencies have rated the Turkish bonds as junk. Do you really watch the news kiddo?

    Nope, Turkey is FINISHED. Sultan Mad Terrorist has effectively disarmed the army because he doesn't trust the army, he uses the police to control Turkey. He went as far as faking the coup last year in order to destroy the Turkish army, amongst others!!!
    Turkish military disarmed? http://www.globalfirepower.com/count...ntry_id=turkey - WRONG.

    It wasn't the Greeks? It was just a few that could take over the whole country? Did you have no patriot that would resist? No soldiers that would resist the orders? What a pathetic excuse hahah. Historical fact is that it WAS the Greeks, and you're only butthurt about it because you ended up getting smacked like little bitches. You're trying to dodge the heat by claiming it was just the junta now haha, as if all the Greek cypriots weren't set on erasing Turks before the smackdown was delivered, as if all the right-wing Greeks weren't puffing their chests prior to the Turkish intervention. Fact is the Greek junta was what the nationalist Greeks had always fantasized about, it just didn't work out as planned lol.

    Yeye Turkey is finished bla bla. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...PP)_per_capita Per capita almost like Greece now.

    Your responses are so corny and filled with wishful thinking you might as well post St. Paisos' predictions, I heard it's a popular prediction in Greece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albobalboa View Post
    Turkish military disarmed? http://www.globalfirepower.com/count...ntry_id=turkey - WRONG.
    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/orig...-soldiers.html

    Even through all his bluster, Erdogan's fear is obvious

    Turkey is commemorating the first anniversary of the July 15 failed coup — the official Martyrs and Democracy Day. The list of state-sponsored celebrations is quite impressive, with nonstop TV shows rewriting that night. A webpage titled “July 15 activities” presents a documentary, songs about the attempt, the names of those killed, and the images of monuments built in Ankara and Istanbul for the victims. It also displays posters designed to capture the key moments of the coup attempt. Since July 11, these images have decorated cities throughout Turkey. Most of them are quite problematic, however.



    Author Pinar Tremblay Posted July 17, 2017




    There is an uproar on social media under the hashtag #IndirinOAfisleri (Take down those posters), which quickly became a trending topic. Social media commentators and columnists were disappointed, furious and perplexed; the most prevalent complaint was the display of Turkish soldiers as traitors and losers positioned against civilians and the Turkish flag. Those who object see the campaign as the government's psychological attack on the military and believe it benefits the country's enemies. Many commentators expressed surprise that there was not an image of exiled cleric Fethullah Gulen, who is said to have orchestrated the coup attempt.

    Ultranationalist politicians Umit Ozdag and Meral Aksener expressed their disapproval of the posters and asked for them to be corrected promptly.
    Within a few hours, it became clear that these images were not only offensive to the Turkish Armed Forces, but they were also plagiarized — in particular, one image caused commotion because it was plagiarized from an award-winning image by American photographer David Turnley taken during the 1991 Gulf War.
    In the midst of the public's anger, several old photos and videos resurfaced online of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and other Justice and Development Party (AKP) elites with Gulen. So far, it's unclear who was responsible for these images. People jokingly debated on social media whether it is Gulen followers or foreign enemies.
    The images of defeated and meek soldiers underline two intertwined issues that are becoming increasingly problematic. First, a year after the botched coup, the domestic and international public remains unclear about what really happened. The coup's political culprits can't be clarified without the AKP’s cooperation.
    Second, why does the government have such an uneasy relationship with the military? The images posted on social media revealed the pent-up frustration the Turkish public has with the AKP government and compelled a public discussion. For example, one Twitter user posted photos of distressed soldiers and wrote, “You cannot pen a grand legacy by getting poor conscripts killed in Syria or through Sadat.” (Sadat is the name of an international defense consultancy company whose owner, Adnan Tanriverdi, is one of Erdogan’s senior advisers.)
    Even long before the coup attempt, Ankara bureaucrats would joke, “We have to keep the military busy so it won't have time to cause trouble."
    AKP elites haven't hidden their suspicion of the armed forces. They have persistently expressed dislike of national holidays celebrated with military parades, which used to be opportunities for the armed forces to show their strength. Through the years, AKP leaders have found perplexing excuses not to attend national celebrations, and they sometimes ban military parades altogether. Instead, government offices, schools and the public have been encouraged to celebrate newly discovered Islamic holidays and AKP-approved events.
    A few recent cases that didn't escape the press indicate that AKP officials, including Erdogan, may indeed be more worried about the armed forces than ever before. For example, in May, just before Erdogan’s arrival in the city of Tekirdag, a soldier assigned to salute the president was removed from the military guard. He was accused of being a member of the Gulen movement.
    In June, images of officers with empty holsters saluting Erdogan appeared in the media. And it's not just Erdogan who may not like security personnel with guns. On July 11, Interior Minister Suleyman Soylu was photographed saluting special operations police who had blank firing adaptors attached to their automatic rifles. Although unverified, there have long been rumors that Erdogan, AKP bureaucrats, lawmakers and even pro-AKP journalists wear bulletproof vests. So what is the cause of their hyperbolic fear of the military?
    A professor of Ottoman history who works at a government university and spoke on condition of anonymity told Al-Monitor, “Trying to revitalize the Ottoman Empire’s glory, Erdogan has definitely woken up the sultan’s nightmare of the Janissaries. For centuries, the sounds of their cauldrons’ banging sent chills down the spines of the palace elite. So the tradition of a military shadow on politics is part of the culture here. Despite multiple coups, armed forces are revered because they are considered just and necessary for modern Turkey."
    However, he said, "in the last decade, starting with the damaging plots, such as the Ergenekon and Balyoz [cases] against high-ranking military officials, the reputation of the army has been tarnished. There are also concerns that Erdogan is raising his own private army [referred to as Sadat in the daily lexicon]. Still, for Erdogan’s and other officials’ security details to collect weapons from honor guards required by protocol is unheard of.”
    Given Erdogan’s show of strength July 15, and given that the military’s reputation and power are at their lowest point in the last decade, why are government elites still scared of their own soldiers?
    Limited data on the past 15 years of the armed forces show a dismal picture. For example, between 2005 and 2015, more soldiers committed suicide than died in combat. That said, the number of security personnel lost in combat or terror attacks has also risen significantly since 2015. Government purges have hit the security forces the hardest, and the latest recruits haven't been trained properly, leading to undeniable incompetence in their service at all levels. To top this off, thousands of conscripts suffered from food poisoning in May and June, and it is doubtful that the allegations of corruption involving the Defense Ministry and catering firms will ever be investigated diligently.
    A colonel who spoke on condition of anonymity told Al-Monitor, “Erdogan will go down in Turkish political history as a politician with the least tolerance toward criticism and satire. We knew he had a fragile ego. We now see the fear of death is quite potent for him, and it is contagious. For now, fear compels obedience. Once the threshold for fear is surpassed, the result is disobedience. Once you have overt disobedience, further domestic pressure becomes inevitable and the cycle for disaster starts. What if people no longer fear the system?”

    It wasn't the Greeks? It was just a few that could take over the whole country? Did you have no patriot that would resist? No soldiers that would resist the orders?
    We had, but they were not coordinating with each other. Some of them were tortured, others killed.

    What a pathetic excuse hahah. Historical fact is that it WAS the Greeks, and you're only butthurt about it because you ended up getting smacked like little bitches. You're trying to dodge the heat by claiming it was just the junta now haha, as if all the Greek cypriots weren't set on erasing Turks before the smackdown was delivered, as if all the right-wing Greeks weren't puffing their chests prior to the Turkish intervention.
    If the Greek Cypriots planned on destroying the Turk Cypriots, they had a decade to accomplish it, and yet they did nothing. In fact Denctash himself was orchestrating the violence against the Turk Cypriots, and killed the most liberal of them.

    Fact is the Greek junta was what the nationalist Greeks had always fantasized about, it just didn't work out as planned lol.
    Yes, but the Greek nationalists were not the majority of the Greeks at that point, or else no junta would be necessary.

    Yeye Turkey is finished bla bla. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...PP)_per_capita Per capita almost like Greece now.
    "Almost like Greece"?

    Did you notice that the Turkish lira lost 1/4 of its' value since 2016 when those statistics were calculated?

    http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?fr...to=TRY&view=1Y

    Did you notice that the Turkish economy took a nosedive after the "coup"?

    http://fares.al-monitor.com/pulse/or...t-economy.html

    Did you notice that the Turks are faking their economic data?

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/orig...overnight.html

    Your responses are so corny and filled with wishful thinking you might as well post St. Paisos' predictions, I heard it's a popular prediction in Greece.
    My responses are based upon facts, and you can check them, if you can read of course...
    Last edited by Petros Houhoulis; 07-23-2017 at 04:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/orig...-soldiers.html

    We had, but they were not coordinating with each other. Some of them were tortured, others killed.If the Greek Cypriots planned on destroying the Turk Cypriots, they had a decade to accomplish it, and yet they did nothing. In fact Denctash himself was orchestrating the violence against the Turk Cypriots, and killed the most liberal of them.Yes, but the Greek nationalists were not the majority of the Greeks at that point, or else no junta would be necessary."Almost like Greece"?

    Did you notice that the Turkish lira lost 1/4 of its' value since 2016 when those statistics were calculated?

    http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?fr...to=TRY&view=1Y

    Did you notice that the Turkish economy took a nosedive after the "coup"?

    http://fares.al-monitor.com/pulse/or...t-economy.html

    Did you notice that the Turks are faking their economic data?

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/orig...overnight.html

    My responses are based upon facts, and you can check them, if you can read of course...
    God you're like a child. I base my responses on actual facts and not articles here and there on how this and that is chaotic. The value of the lira matters only internationally, plus the lower the value the more competitive Turkey is to its trade partners.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...PP)_per_capita The list standardizes their value, it's not based on GDP per capita in their own currency, it's standardized in US dollars. So Turks literally have a GDP per capita almost as strong as the Greeks. Now really think about that, because that's despite what is going on in Turkey, they're still growing. Don't base your opinion on articles you dumb fuck.

    http://www.globalfirepower.com/count...ntry_id=turkey Turkey has had a split between political leadership and army for a long time, it's nothing new. What Erdogan managed to do is minimize that divide, there's still butthurt but the military remains and is in his full control. Don't fucking post opinion articles and pretend as if it's hard facts.

    Now time for Elder Paisos

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