What language did the Normans speak when they conquered Sicily, Antioch and Britain?

[Sikeliot]

The Normans were from northern France and during the Crusades, conquered different regions that were on the periphery of the Muslim world as well as, for some reason, the UK.

What did they speak? French? I always assumed they would have spoken French and been, far and away, ethnically French. The actual Nordic element would have been low and diluted.

[Melki]

They all spoke old Norman-French, a langue d'oil dialect.

Norman warlords were quickly gallicized, but several harbors in Normandy have a clear Norse toponomy, like for instance Dieppe, Fécamp, Honfleur, Elbeuf, Ouistreham (the suffix hamn still means "harbor" in modern Norwegian Nynorsk), Saint-Vaast-la-Hougue, Etretat, Touques, Houlgate, Barfleur...

Anf many words of Scandinavian origin made their way into the French maritime vocabulary.

[crazyladybutterfly]

norman people are the most northern shifted population though.
I would guess something like 3/4 french 1/4 viking

[Enflamme]

Because you think that "the French ethnic group" existed before? It is a construction from the Revolution of 1789.

There is no "French ethnic group", there are Alsatians, Breton, Basques, Picardy, Gascons, etc.

But to return to the main subject: they should certainly speak an typically old Norman language ...

[Sikeliot]

norman people are the most northern shifted population though.
I would guess something like 3/4 french 1/4 viking

I doubt they are distinguishable today from other northern French.

[Ilma]

Hello ! I found out for you what language specifically was spoken by Normans during the XIIth and XIIIth centuries.

Well they were speaking already Norman language which is specific to the Normandy since 911. When Normans (Norsemen) settled here and created the Normandy as we know it today they were speaking old norse language but they adopted to the local population the latin syntaxe from the gallo-roman spoken adding their vocabulary from old norse in several lexical fields : sea, fishing, boats, landscapes, building, food etc. This mix is unique and gave the Norman language which is latin with Norse imput and kind of germanic pronounciation.


Here I recorded for you Norman language and French language from the XIIth century : http://vocaroo.com/i/s0yHaY9OrpBR

We can assume they were speaking that way.

Here is a text in Norman from Wace circa 1155 :

"Man en engleis e en norreis
Hume signifie en frenceis
De ceo vint li nuns as Normanz.
Neustrie aveit nun anceis
Tant cume ele fud as Franceis."

In Modern Norman (same text) :

Spoiler!

"Man en angleis et en norreis
Houme signifie en fraunceis
De chà vyint le noum ès Normands.
Neustrie aveit noum ancien
Taunt qù'o feut ès Fraunceis."

Also the Norman Poet Benoît de Sainte-Maure in Chronique des ducs de Normandie wrote in the XIIth that Dannish was still spoken in the sea coast areas of Normandy.

Another Norman writer Guillaume de Berneville, circa 1150 :

"A plein se astent d’eschiper,
Kar mult coveitent le passer,
Bons fud li vens e la mer quieie:
Ne lur estoet muver lur greie,
Ne n’i out la nuit lof cloé,
Estuinc trait ne tref gardé,
Ne n’i out halé bagordinge,
Ne escote ne scolaringe;
Ne fud mester de boesline;
Tute fud queie la marine:
Ne lur estut pas estricher,
Ne tendre tref ne helenger.
Fort ert l'estait e li hobent
Ki fermé furent vers le vent,
E d'autre part devers le bort
Sunt li nodras e li bras fort;
Bones utange out el tref,
Meillurs n'esnot a nule nef;
Bons fud li tref e la nef fort,
E unt bon vent ki tost les port.
Tute noit current a la lune
Le tref windé trés k'a la hune:
Ne lur estut muver funain
Trestute nuit ne lendemain."

This is same Norman language as Wace, same period. Still latin language with great imput of Norse.

I should find to compare french text of the same period. Here is a french text, french poem from Richard the Lionheart written in the same period XIIth century in language d'Oil (french, half North part of France).

Spoiler!

Compare it to the previous texts in Norman to see the difference ! this is french of the XIIth, at least the ancestor of modern french language

Ja nuns hons pris :

Ja nus hons pris ne dira sa raison
Adroitement, s'ensi com dolans non,
Mais par confort puet il faire chançon.
Mout ai d'amis, mais povre son li don.
Honte en avront, se por ma réançon
Sui ces deus yvers pris

BTW the french language received great imput FROM Norman and not the contrary. Norman language gave the french language more vocabulary in several lexical fields such as maritime and the faun and flora.

Same thing during the Conquest of England by Normans (after 1066), the english language received imput from Norman language such as you can find examples here : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman...ent_du_normand

I doubt they are distinguishable today from other northern French.

Check out in my signature the "Common phenotypes in Normandy" thread

[Melki]

I doubt they are distinguishable today from other northern French.

Exactly, the tall blonde French Norman is a myth. Like most of ethnic French, Normans generally have light brown hair. And their temperament is more "Latin" than "Germanic".

As for their language, they quickly rejected their old Norse and adopted the local langue d'oil dialect, the lords tried to adapt themselves to their new subjects.
There's nothing Scandinavian in today's Norman culture.

[Sikeliot]

Exactly, the tall blonde French Norman is a myth. Like most of ethnic French, Normans generally have light brown hair. And their temperament is more "Latin" than "Germanic".

As for their language, they quickly rejected their old Norse and adopted the local langue d'oil dialect, the lords tried to adapt themselves to their new subjects.
There's nothing Scandinavian in today's Norman culture.

And my thoughts are that the Normans in Britain, Ireland, Sicily, etc. were genetically far more Gallic than Germanic, with only distant Scandinavian influence on the paternal line.

[Melki]

And my thoughts are that the Normans in Britain, Ireland, Sicily, etc. were genetically far more Gallic than Germanic, with only distant Scandinavian influence on the paternal line.

Your thoughts are certainly right.

[Ilma]

My eyes are bleeding to read so many bullshit in some comments here... I wrote everything already in threads you find in my signature.

The current thread by the way is not about Scandinavian imput in Normandy of today but what language Normans were speaking when they conquered Sicily.

Exactly, the tall blonde French Norman is a myth. Like most of ethnic French, Normans generally have light brown hair. And their temperament is more "Latin" than "Germanic".

As for their language, they quickly rejected their old Norse and adopted the local langue d'oil dialect, the lords tried to adapt themselves to their new subjects.
There's nothing Scandinavian in today's Norman culture.

Normans generally have dark blond hair, they are lighter than average frenchman. Check the common phenotypes in Normandy to see it. I only agree that majority of Normans are not blond as you can see in my samples. BTW the presence of blonds and redhair is higher in Norman population than in France.

What about the temperament, what are you talking about ? -_- What are you calling latin temperament ? here you try to be familiar or touch people you don't know you go to fuck off. We're mistrustful, speaking our mind, cold and determinate. French moving in Normandy always reproach our coldness and indpendance, also our mistrusting in people.

When did we reject old norse from Norman language ? have you only one idea about what is Norman language today ? I don't think so.

"Nothing Scandinavian in Norman culture today" how do you know that ? what is your supposition ? And for your information for 20 years now we are in tourism cultural partenership with Scandinavia with the association and festival the Boréales. Every year this is more and more succesful. They even started to go for a political partenership now with Nordic countries and Normandy.

And my thoughts are that the Normans in Britain, Ireland, Sicily, etc. were genetically far more Gallic than Germanic, with only distant Scandinavian influence on the paternal line.

Check "Ethnogenesis of Normandy" below in my signature and you will learn truth right away.