Genetics of the Peloponnesean populations and the theory of extinction of the medieval Peloponnesean

[Sikeliot]

Put a time frame on that; Sorcelow already mentioned Cretans in Mani (as did the paper), but what about the others (Dodecanese, Anatolians, Sicilians).

Sicilians and Calabrese were brought to the Peloponnese to replace the expelled Slavs. I'd go so far as to say Peloponnesians are more Sicilian than the reverse.

What is evident to me is what I said above: Sicilians have more Sardinian/Iberian-like affinity, while Peloponnesians do indeed have more Slavic, even though the paper concludes it is small. The two roughly cancel out.

I think in general though it can be concluded that Peloponnesians, Sicilians, and Cretans are all fairly close. What I want to see is islands other than the Dodecanese studied, who I suspect will also be very close to Sicilians.

[Sikeliot]

Also important to note, the Sicilian sample is SOUTHEAST (i.e. "Ancient Greek") Sicily. What this is saying is people from southern Peloponnese and from Ragusa/Syracuse are 90%+ similar. I doubt the similarity would be as high if the Sicilians were Palermitan, from Caltanissetta, or from Agrigento where there is a small amount of extra Near Eastern (see this example: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?204864).

So apparently: Peloponnesians have less than 15% Slavic ancestry (still more than Hellenas claims) while they can share with Italians up to 96% (I bet the 96% are 'Deep Mani' sample and match to the Sicilian sample which is SE Sicily). Those sharing only 85% with Italy, clearly are the Slavicized ones! And there is otherwise very little affinity to Slavs nor to MENAs.

"The results of Table 2 show that there is considerably more shared ancestry between the Peloponneseans and the French, Andalusians and Italians compared to the shared ancestry between the Peloponneseans and the Slavic populations. The average shared ancestry with French ranges from 39 to 42%; with Andalusians from 53 to 62%; and with the Italians from 85 to 96%. In contrast, the average shared ancestry with the Slavic populations is always <15%"

[Sikeliot]

I'd like to see a similar study for Epirus, Thessaly, Macedonia, etc. where I think the Slavic would be considerably higher.

[Tacitus]

Also important to note, the Sicilian sample is SOUTHEAST (i.e. "Ancient Greek") Sicily. What this is saying is people from southern Peloponnese and from Ragusa/Syracuse are 90%+ similar.

So apparently: Peloponnesians have less than 15% Slavic ancestry (still more than Hellenas claims) while they can share with Italians up to 96% (I bet the 96% are 'Deep Mani' sample and match to the Sicilian sample which is SE Sicily). Those sharing only 85% with Italy, clearly are the Slavicized ones! And there is otherwise very little affinity to Slavs nor to MENAs.

"The results of Table 2 show that there is considerably more shared ancestry between the Peloponneseans and the French, Andalusians and Italians compared to the shared ancestry between the Peloponneseans and the Slavic populations. The average shared ancestry with French ranges from 39 to 42%; with Andalusians from 53 to 62%; and with the Italians from 85 to 96%. In contrast, the average shared ancestry with the Slavic populations is always <15%"

Where does it say that? The citations for the Italian/Sicilian links are from Cavalli-Sforza (1994), Di Gaetano (2009), and Fiorito (2016). Not Paschou (2013).

[Sikeliot]

But what must still be emphasized is this: the difference that DOES exist between Italy and Peloponnese, the 4-15% difference, is ultimately the amount of Slavic DNA Peloponnesians do have.

I expected it to be higher, but at least we can quantify it now.

[Sikeliot]

Where does it say that? The citations for the Italian/Sicilian links are from Cavalli-Sforza (2004), Di Gaetano (2009), and Fiorito (2016).

I thought it was the Syracusan sample from Paschou et al.

I guess I also should reconsider now when I say Peloponnesians have nothing to do with the Spanish, since they also share a lot of ancestry with Spain, and very little with Slavs and MENAs.

[Sikeliot]

Where does it say that? The citations for the Italian/Sicilian links are from Cavalli-Sforza (2004), Di Gaetano (2009), and Fiorito (2016). Not Paschou (2013).

Ok so if it is not the sample from Paschou, then it may not be Syracusans.

[Tacitus]

I thought it was the Syracusan sample from Paschou et al.

Nope, while I don't know where the Fiorito or the Cavalli-Sforza samples were from Di Gaetano's came from all over Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

Both my parents are from the slopes of the Taygetos and my gedmatch results are nearly identical to that of other mainland Greeks.

This is where I am skeptical of the study then, because your results are quite far from Sicilians, despite the study implying you should be similar to one.

[Sikeliot]

Nope, while I don't know where the Fiorito or the Cavalli-Sforza samples were from Di Gaetano's came from all over Sicily.

Do you acknowledge the 4-15% of Peloponnesian DNA *not* matching Sicilians, is their Slavic shift?

I'd like to see a similar study on Sicilians, Cretans, and other Aegean islanders to determine what amount of their ancestry is MENA affinity in excess of Greece.

Though I realize the similarity measured is to *Italians* as a whole, not just to Sicilians here. So it is not accurate to say Laconians are 96% similar to Sicilians, it is saying to Italians, including all of the Italian samples.