Who are your oldest known ancestors?

[Shah-Jehan]

Most (if not all) of my maternal ancestors were Bengali Kulin Brahmins who converted to Islam in the mid to late 1800s. They were Zamindars (feudal landlords) and held villages/estates in and around Chittagong.

Kulin Brahmins are the Bengali Brahmins, who can trace themselves to the five families of Kanauj who migrated to Bengal. The five families were of the five gotras (Shandilya, Bharadwaj, Kashyap, Vatsya and Swavarna). They are widely believed to be at the apex of Bengal's Hindu caste hierarchy. They are mainly classified under two sub-groups — Rādhi and Vārendra.

My mom's paternal ancestor belonged to the Kashyap gotra or clan, so my oldest known ancestor from my maternal side is Great Rishi Kashyapa who lived in about 1200-1000 BC. (though of course through clan exogamic marriages, I probably have descent from all five gotras but only one is known)

Kashyapa is a revered Vedic sage of Hinduism. He was one of the seven ancient sages (rishi) considered as Saptarishis in Rigveda, numerous Sanskrit texts and Indian mythologies. He is the most ancient rishi listed in the colophon verse in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, and called a self-made scholar in the Atharvaveda. He was based in northwestern part of the Indian subcontinent, and legends attribute the region of Kashmir to be derived from his name.

From my paternal side, I have Persian and Bengali ancestry, but not much is known from my Persian side, aside from my great grandparents originally being from Old Delhi. My paternal grandmother on the other hand was a descendant of Isa khan, who was a renowned warrior king of the Bengal region, and led a confederacy of feudal chiefs in the Bengal region of around 12-chiefs known as the "baro-Bhuiyan" confederacy. They were ultimately defeated by the Mughal invasion, and their descendants (who should number around 1-2 million) were dispersed throughout the region.

Anyway, Isa khan himself was the son of Kalidas Gazdani, and grandson of Bhagirath Gazdani. Bhagirath and his family were originally Bais Rajputs from Awadh (ayodhya) in Northern India, who came to serve the Sultans of Bengal. Kalidas Gazdani ultimately converted to Islam, and took up the name Suleiman Khan (as per the Akbarnamah) and continued to serve the sultan, just as his descendants would. The Bais Rajputs are a clan of Rajputs belonging to the Suryavanshi dyansty (or Solar Dynasty) which was founded by the legendary King Ikshvaku in the Vedic era.




The Bais themselves are a clan founded by Raja Shalivahana who gave areas such as Sialkot in Punjab meaning fortress of Sial, its name, and the clan members continued a migration up north and they moved to the Awadh region around the 13th to 14th centuries.

Shalivahana was a legendary emperor of ancient India, who is said to have ruled from Pratishthana (present-day Paithan, Maharashtra). He is believed to be based on a Satavahana king (or kings).

However, I can trace my ancestry to about early 1800s on both sides, after which there is a big blur until the names of people I mentioned, but, they are officially my oldest known ancestors.

[Mortimer]

i consider that more like a mythology what you said, you cannot prove he is your direct ancestor just that it is some clan, it is similar as some claim to be descendt of mohammed or like that thats how i see, my oldest known ancestor (known to me and my family) are my great great grandparents

[Shah-Jehan]

i consider that more like a mythology what you said, you cannot prove he is your direct ancestor just that it is some clan, it is similar as some claim to be descendt of mohammed or like that thats how i see, my oldest known ancestor (known to me and my family) are my great great grandparents

The descendants of Mohammed (the Sayyids/Syeds) are real for the most part, e.g. the Iranian Ayatollah. The "gotra" system is also real and they are actually descended from those people, but the mythological god-like character(s) are not true. Lots of Hindus maintain genealogical records, especially since marriage can only be done to a member of an opposite "gotra", marriage in the same gotra will be considered incest etc.

Also Isa khan, and his descendants are obviously true lol, they lived in the 16th century.

[Mortimer]

The descendants of Mohammed (the Sayyids/Syeds) are real for the most part, e.g. the Iranian Ayatollah. The "gotra" system is also real and they are actually descended from those people, but the mythological god-like character(s) are not true.

Isa khan, and his descendants are obviously true lol, they lived in the 16th century.

to me it looks dubious if he even existed or who he was etc. but maybe im wrong.

[Wadaad]

Irir via Samaale the mythical patriarch of 9 out of the 11 major clan groups

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaale

[Shah-Jehan]

Irir via Samaale the mythical patriarch of 9 out of the 11 major clan groups

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaale

Do Somalis practice clan exogamy where a person from a sub-clan can't be married to another person of the same sub-clan?

[Wadaad]

Do Somalis practice clan exogamy where a person from a sub-clan can't be married to another person of the same sub-clan?

There's no specific rule, but it is favoured as inter clan marriages usually results in the peaceful resolution of feuds

[Shah-Jehan]

There's no specific rule, but it is favoured as inter clan marriages usually results in the peaceful resolution of feuds

Interesting, Hindus, and some Muslims descended from Hindus do not marry within the same patrilineal clan, as it would be regarded incest to do so.

In Hindu society, the term gotra means clan. It broadly refers to people who are descendants in an unbroken male line from a common male ancestor or patriline. Generally the gotra forms an exogamous unit, with the marriage within the same gotra being prohibited by custom, being regarded as incest.

[Al-Meksiki]

I had an ancestor in Reconquista era Spain named Alvaro, who is the namesake for the full form of my families name, Alvarez de las Asturias. There's no actual documentation, but he can be conjectured to exist, and thus would be my earliest known ancestor

[Mortimer]

Interesting, Hindus, and some Muslims descended from Hindus do not marry within the same patrilineal clan, as it would be regarded incest to do so.

to me its interesting that you follow hindu marriage restrictions eventhough you are muslim, as male muslim you could marry whoever you want as long she is another muslim or women of the book who accepts islam dominance. why is hinduism for you important?