Spaniards plot south: Greeks/Albanians closer Tuscans, Bulgarians, and North Italians.

[Sikeliot]

What does that even mean? If I am 50% Northern European 50% Turk I will probably plot north of Sicilians. What it shows is that Greeks have some more Northern european ancestry than Southern Italians, it doesn't mean that they don't have a huge level of West Asian/Asia Minor ancestry like S.Italians do.

Again in that chart you went by haplogroups. AUTOSOMAL DNA puts mainland Greeks north of southern Italians/Sicilians on PCA plots (even when factoring in any North Euro in Sicily which, FYI, is autosomally very small regardless of haplogroups). No one denied they have a similar amount of Asia Minor or Neolithic West Asian. All I want acknowledged is they have more North European and plot north of them on most PCA plots.

[Sikeliot]

There are no proof that it has anything to do with mixture that came from Slavs, MENAS etc.
However indeed Greeks have slightly more ANE than s. Italians making them closer to south slavs and even slavs compared to s. Italians.
It is also well known that in Europe South Italians are indeed the most south-plotting population along with Maltese and Greeks (Greeks plot more east, but can plot equally south, that's what Sikeliot denies). That means that s. Italians/ Greeks and Maltese indeed are closest to Caucasoid MENAS compared to other European groups.
That doesn't mean they are at all close to those pop. Just closer compared to other Euro groups.

Average Greeks do not plot equally south though. Greeks usually plot between southern Italians and Tuscans and Bulgarians, which means they plot east of them... what they do not plot is as much south or toward North Africa/Levant. FYI even as Maltese plot slightly further south of Sicilians, so it really is Malta/Sicily closer, Greece most different.

Sicily, Ashkenazim, and Maltese are the three outliers. Most Greeks, no.

[Bell Beaker]

Again in that chart you went by haplogroups. AUTOSOMAL DNA puts mainland Greeks north of southern Italians/Sicilians on PCA plots (even when factoring in any North Euro in Sicily which, FYI, is autosomally very small regardless of haplogroups). No one denied they have a similar amount of Asia Minor or Neolithic West Asian. All I want acknowledged is they have more North European and plot north of them on most PCA plots.

You can't measure autosomal ancestry, it's like guessing what is going to be the numbers of the lotery. Because it's a whole 50 000 history that you are describing as "More Northern" or more "Southern".

I will always go by Haplogroups.

[Sikeliot]

Greeks are closer to Albanians than anyone else (no matter what anyone says or denies, the opposite is true too), they do not belong being in the same category or mention with Maltese, Sicilians, or Ashkenazim is my point. They have more West Asian ancestry than the Spanish, but they're not Malta/Sicily level outlying.

[Sikeliot]

You can't measure autosomal ancestry, it's like guessing what is going to be the numbers of the lotery. Because it's a whole 50 000 history that you are describing as "More Northern" or more "Southern".

I will always go by Haplogroups.

Well if you want to go by haplogroups we are talking about apples and oranges here since I only discuss autosomal, and you will never be able to discuss this with me in a way that is otherwise. FYI, Lebanese also have minor West Euro y-dna.

[Bell Beaker]

Well if you want to go by haplogroups we are talking about apples and oranges here since I only discuss autosomal, and you will never be able to discuss this with me in a way that is otherwise. FYI, Lebanese also have minor West Euro y-dna.

Autosomal ancestry is tricky.....

[Sikeliot]

Autosomal ancestry is tricky.....

Just look at a PCA plot. I am done trying to attribute things to Slavic, Phoenician, etc. Just look at a PCA plot, see out of Ashkenazim/Maltese/Sicilians and Greeks who plot differently than the others (toward the rest of Europe).

Anyway my goal has never been to prove Sicilians are more MENA than all other Europeans. I have readily said, despite them being a subgroup of them, Maltese are more so, and even most Ashkenazim probably surpass them, given they are not even really originated in Europe. I just will not acknowledge the same for Greeks because for 90% of them it is NOT true.

[Bell Beaker]

Just look at a PCA plot. I am done trying to attribute things to Slavic, Phoenician, etc. Just look at a PCA plot, see out of Ashkenazim/Maltese/Sicilians and Greeks who plot differently than the others (toward the rest of Europe).

Anyway my goal has never been to prove Sicilians are more MENA than all other Europeans. I have readily said, despite them being a subgroup of them, Maltese are more so, and even most Ashkenazim probably surpass them, given they are not even really originated in Europe. I just will not acknowledge the same for Greeks because for 90% of them it is NOT true.

Nothing that Haplogroups have ever hide.......




Iberians (western southern europeans) have more Indigenous European ancestry than other Southern Europeans because obviously they are far away from the Levant.....

[RN97]

Average Greeks do not plot equally south though. Greeks usually plot between southern Italians and Tuscans and Bulgarians, which means they plot east of them... what they do not plot is as much south or toward North Africa/Levant. FYI even as Maltese plot slightly further south of Sicilians, so it really is Malta/Sicily closer, Greece most different.

Sicily, Ashkenazim, and Maltese are the three outliers. Most Greeks, no.

It's not that significant, the main difference is still east/ west.

[Sikeliot]

It's not that significant, the main difference is still east/ west.

The east/west difference is NE European vs NW European influence.

But no, most Greeks do not plot as far south, because their combined northern influence is noticeably higher.