I-L621, a paleobalkanic haplogroup?

[Peterski]

Info about Slavs being subjugated by the Avars was only about the Dulebes (not all Slavs):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulebes

Scythians (proto-R1a)

So far all Scythian R1a samples belong to R1a-Z93, which is the Indo-Iranic branch of R1a.

R1a in modern Greece belongs to typically Slavic subclades under R1a-M458 and R1a-Z280.

===============

Comments from Eurogenes blog about Slavic admixture in modern Southern Greece:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/0...tion-bias.html

Interesting read, "The plague pandemic and Slavic expansion in the 6th-8th centuries":

http://www.antropologia.uw.edu.pl/AS/as-005.pdf

It is possible that Slavs had a higher immunity to plague than Non-Slavic populations.

[Ülev]

From I to R1ethelites, as usually

[Skerdilaid]

This is not how Early South Slavs were described by Byzantine authors:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4268295

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4268278

In fact native Pre-Slavic Balkan populations were described as helpless.

As for the Avars - initial Slavic raids and invasions (ca. 490-560 AD) were carried out alone, without Avar help. The Avars arrived to the Balkans in 561 AD. And their relations with Slavs were complex (also different with different tribes - because Slavs were already divided into many tribes at that time).

The Avars destroyed the Gepids in 568 AD and defeated the Langobards in 569 AD.

The Langobards moved to Italy after being defeated by the Avars in Pannonia.

As for the Avars - sometimes they also fought as Byzantine allies against Slavs. In 584 AD the Slavs under Ardagast besieged Constantinople and Emperor Maurice united with Bayan I (Avar khagan) against the Slavs. Byzantine-Avar forces under Komentiolus defeated Ardagast in two battles. In 585 AD Byzantine-Avar forces under Priskos and Gentzon attacked Slavs to the north of the Danube (in Romania).

But later the Avars once again united with Slavs against the Byzantines.

They actually reduced you to a vegetarian:

"Their history, from the earliest times, was a tragedy. Their proximity to the steppes of Southern Russia exposed them as a prey to the Asiatic mounted nomads who successively invaded and occupied the lands between the Don and the Dniester. Living as they did, they could not combine against these enemies who plundered them and carried them off as slaves. They could only protect themselves by hiding in the forest or in the waters of their lakes and rivers. They built their huts with several doors to facilitate escape when danger threatened; they hid their belongings, which were as few as possible, in the earth. They could elude a foe by diving under the water and lying for hours on the bottom, breathing through a long reed, which only the most experienced pursuers could detect.4

At a time of which we have no record the Slavs began to spread silently beyond the borders of Polesia, northward, eastward, and southward. In the fourth century they were conquered p295 by Hermanric, king of the Ostrogoths, and included in his extensive realm.5 They enjoyed a brief interlude of German tyranny instead of nomad raids; then the Huns appeared and they were exposed once more to the oppression which had been their secular lot. They had probably learned much from the Goths; but when they emerge at length into the full light of history in the sixth century, they still retained most of the characteristics which their life in Polesia had impressed upon them. They lived far apart from one another in wretched hovels;6 though they had learned to act together, they did not abandon their freedom to the authority of a king. Revolting against military discipline, they had no battle array and seldom met a foe in the open field.7 Their arms were a shield, darts, and poisoned arrows.8 They were perfidious, for no compact could bind them all; but they are praised for their hospitality to strangers and for the fidelity of their women"

Only after interbreeding with the Asian hordes did Slavs develop a back bone

[Coolguy1]

It could be that the haplogroup originated amongst non slavic speakers, but was later obsorbed by them and brought to the balkans en masse.

[catgeorge]

It could be that the haplogroup originated amongst non slavic speakers, but was later obsorbed by them and brought to the balkans en masse.

If they bought them to the Balkans then I people were the fuckers not being fucked. To put it nicely.

But I is the oldest Haplo in Europe most likely came from cro-magnon.. which is also from J and G

[cosmoo]

This is not how Early South Slavs were described by Byzantine authors:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4268295

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4268278

In fact native Pre-Slavic Balkan populations were described as helpless.

This. Slavs were quite far from "exploitable farmers" that some here try to present them as. Everyone on Balkan was shitting their pants when they came, at least according to period sources. The region which they came from (westernmost Slavic lands, according to Porphyrogenitus, matching toponyms, and few other sources) was infamous even after their departure. "I'll deliver you to the Wends" was a common threat Norsemen made to their captured foes. Elbe Slavs resisted Christianization the most and completely razed several important cities of Holy Roman Empire. They even raided Scandinavia (they are still salty and don't want to admit it), like when they burnt Konungahella to the ground and enslaved most of remaining population.

Info about Slavs being subjugated by the Avars was only about the Dulebes (not all Slavs):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulebes

Yep, and Dulebes were the most passive Slavic tribe ever.

It could be that the haplogroup originated amongst non slavic speakers, but was later obsorbed by them and brought to the balkans en masse.

It is quite certain that it was originally a Mesolithic European haplogroup that first got Germanicized, then Slavicized, we only don't exactly know when and where.

[Peterski]

Their history, from the earliest times, was a tragedy.

How could it be a "tragedy" if Slavs are the largest meta-ethnicity in modern Europe?

Already Mario Alinei in "The Slavic Ethnogenesis..." noticed that it doesn't make sense:

https://www.academia.edu/11751155/Th...tinuity_Theory



I already explained, that this association formed because Slavs were enslaving others:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4268295

But Mario Alinei chose the opposite explanation - that Slavs are native in the Balkans:

https://www.christopherculver.com/la...c-origins.html

[Skerdilaid]

How could it be a "tragedy" if Slavs are the largest meta-ethnicity in modern Europe?

Already Mario Alinei in "The Slavic Ethnogenesis..." noticed that it doesn't make sense:

https://www.academia.edu/11751155/Th...tinuity_Theory



I already explained, that this association formed because Slavs were enslaving others:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4268295

But Mario Alinei chose the opposite explanation - that Slavs are native in the Balkans:

https://www.christopherculver.com/la...c-origins.html

Chill bro, I am just trolling. Though, there is some degree of truth on what I have been saying

[Drawing-slim]

Chill bro, I am just trolling. Though, there is some degree of truth on what I have been saying

I honestly agree with you as well. And i take pride being I2a. Which puts weight on my opinion regarding this subject. I bet I2a carriers are a more peaceful nature than avars huns and E-v13 J2's & R1b ghegs. Years ago in here i even pitched the idea that majority of sebrenica victims were 12a carriers while amongst the perpetrator serbs I2a must have veen in a very small number. If we look at all serbian war criminals its very easy to guess they're not I2a carriers.
This doesnt make I2a carriers pussies in literal sense but perhaps just naive not preparing for the worst so they dont get slaughtered like they did in bosnia, they are higher beings who value life and strive for peace, a higher quality life. More reasonable people than all ancient ghegs avars and huns

[Coolguy1]

I honestly agree with you as well. And i take pride being I2a. Which puts weight on my opinion regarding this subject. I bet I2a carriers are a more peaceful nature than avars huns and E-v13 J2's & R1b ghegs. Years ago in here i even pitched the idea that majority of sebrenica victims were 12a carriers while amongst the perpetrator serbs I2a must have veen in a very small number. If we look at all serbian war criminals its very easy to guess they're not I2a carriers.
This doesnt make I2a carriers pussies in literal sense but perhaps just naive not preparing for the worst so they dont get slaughtered like they did in bosnia, they are higher beings who value life and strive for peace, a higher quality life. More reasonable people than all ancient ghegs avars and huns

What part of Albania are you from?