Percent of blond hair among Ugro-Finns and their neighbours

[Ymyyakhtakh]

if Finland's blondness is overrated by the lack of inclusion of east Finns(most would just gather samples from Helsinki or SW Finland where most of the population is)

In the post linked by the OP, Ingrians (85%), North-Eastern Finns (81.7%), and Karelians (79.9%) all had a higher frequency of light-colored hair (classes 1 + 2 + 3 + 4) than the group labeled as simply "Finnish" (77.2%). Ingrians are not really a distinct ethnicity, but they are an Eastern Finnish population that moved to the area of Ingria in the 17th century.

Population	1+2+3+4	1+2+3
Curonian	100	70
Estonian	86	34.5
Votic	85.4	26.8
Ingrian	85	22.5
North-West Russian (Ostrów)	84.7	48.9
Finnish (North-East)	81.7	26
Mordvin (Teryukhan)	81.2	21.8
Karelian	79.9	25.7
Mordvin (Karatai)	77.8	20.4
Finnish	77.2	30.2
North Latvian (Limbazi)	75.8	33.8
Swedish-Finnish	75.7	21.3
Izhorian	71	23.7
Komi-Zyrian	70.2	18.5
Erzya	66.5	19.9
Moksha	63.3	16
Vepsan	62.5	20.2
Komi-Permyak	61.3	14.5
Russian (Volga-Ural)	60.7	13.2
Livonian	56.6	15.1
Udmurt	54	16.7
Saami	52.7	10.3
Udmurt (Besserman)	51.6	13.7
Mari	46.3	7.6
Chuvash	34.8	4.7
Tatar	32.2	4.5
Mansi	30.1	2.7
Khanty	24.4	2.2
Bashkir	17.3	0.6

it's been long established that Scandinavians and Finns are the blondest populations in the world

In the table above, Estonians are the blondest Baltic Finnic population by either definition of being blonde.

The Finns are likely the European nation with the highest occurrence of the epicanthic fold (think of Pekka-Eric Auvinen). It is because of their East Asian admixture (Eupedia map of East Asian admixture).

The post linked by the OP also includes data for eye shape. Estonians are more Mongoloid-shifted than the three Finnish groups (Finnish, Finnish (North-East), and Ingrian) in all three metrics, apart from the "Finnish (North-East)" group having a higher prevalence of a "Mongol fold" (3.5%) than Estonians (2.3%). Then again, is Sápmi or Mari El a nation?

Population	Inner eyelid fold strength 3 = strong, 0 = missing	% lack inner eyelid fold	% lack Mongol fold
Khanty	1.89	5.4	82.6
Mansi	1.8	8	81.4
Bashkir	1.7	5.7	89.1
Mari	1.58	10.3	86.3
Komi-Permyak	1.53	12.1	97.2
Chuvash	1.51	11.6	87.7
Udmurt (Besserman)	1.45	9.4	96.4
Komi-Zyrian	1.45	14.1	95.7
Izhorian	1.45	14	98
Udmurt	1.44	14.9	91.1
Tatar	1.37	14.9	87.3
Estonian	1.36	14.5	97.7
Finnish	1.35	16.2	98.1
Vepsan	1.34	13.9	98.2
Finnish (North-East)	1.34	18.9	96.5
Erzya	1.32	16.3	94.9
Swedish-Finnish	1.29	17.1	98.3
Finnish Saami	1.28	22.9	93
Karelian	1.24	21.3	98.2
Russian (Volga-Ural)	1.21	20.7	98
Mordvin (Karatai)	1.2	21.6	90.8
Moksha	1.13	30.3	92.6
Lapland Komi	1.1	31.7	95.2
Mordvin (Teryukhan)	1.08	23.1	98.1
Ingrian	1	29.4	100
Votic	0.97	31.7	98.4
North Latvian (Limbazi)	0.9	15.2	-
Livonian	0.88	40.8	-
North-West Russian (Ostrów)	0.78	39	-

Light eyes 69%, mixed 29%, brown only 2%

The so-called "mixed" colors on the Bunak scale are also light-colored (green or gray), apart from maybe color 5.

Class 2 ("dark") includes 1 (black), 2 (dark brown), 3 (light brown), and 4 (yellow). Class 1 ("mixed") includes 5 (dark-mixed), 6 (green), 7 (mixed gray-green), and 8 (gray with a ring). Class 0 ("light") includes 9 (gray), 10 (gray blue), 11 (light blue), and 12 (dark blue).



Anyway, 2% seems like a too low figure for the prevalence of brown and black eyes among Finns. Maybe the classification of eye color was not actually based on the Bunak scale, but class 2 only included black eyes, and brown eyes were included in class 1 or something. Even Khanty have 54.3% "mixed" (class 1) and 42.4% "dark" (class 2) eyes, and Bashkirs have 49.6% "mixed" (class 1) and 41.2% "dark" (class 2) eyes.

[Lucas]

The post linked by the OP also includes data for eye shape. Estonians are more Mongoloid-shifted than the three Finnish groups (Finnish, Finnish (North-East), and Ingrian) in all three metrics, apart from the "Finnish (North-East)" group having a higher prevalence of a "Mongol fold" (3.5%) than Estonians (2.3%). Then again, is Sápmi or Mari El a nation?

Finnish-East are just form NE Finland

The so-called "mixed" colors on the Bunak scale are also light-colored (green or gray), apart from maybe color 5.


Anyway, 2% seems like a too low figure for the prevalence of brown and black eyes among Finns. Maybe the classification of eye color was not actually based on the Bunak scale, but class 2 only included black eyes, and brown eyes were included in class 1 or something. Even Khanty have 54.3% "mixed" (class 1) and 42.4% "dark" (class 2) eyes, and Bashkirs have 49.6% "mixed" (class 1) and 41.2% "dark" (class 2) eyes.

It was based on Bunak scale. But yes among mixed eyes was included mixed color no 5, which is hazel-darkgreen and other classification would count it as dark.

For Khants or Bashkirs probbaly most prevalent is number 5 in mixed category.

[Matty74]

Curonians=native Memellanders correct? Or sorta?

[Matty74]

But this is about Russians who live in the Baltic States. Their ancestors could come from some woggy parts of Russia.

What makes you think that all of Russians in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania originally came from North-Western Russia?

I played hockey with a guy from Lithuania a few years back, but he was of mixed Kazakh/Siberian origin.

[Roy]

Interesting data:

[Language family] Population - % blond hair:

[Baltic] Curonians - 70,0
[Slavic] North-Western Russians - 48,9
[Uralic] Estonians - 34,5
[Baltic] Northern Latvians - 33,8
[Uralic] Finns - 30,2
[Uralic] Votes - 26,8
[Uralic] North-Eastern Finns - 26,0
[Uralic] Karelians - 25,7
[Uralic] Izhorians - 23,7
[Uralic] Ingrians - 22,5
[Uralic] Mordvins Teryuhan - 21,8
[Germanic] Swedes in Finland - 21,3
[Uralic] Mordvins Karatai - 20,4
[Uralic] Vepsians - 20,2
[Uralic] Mordvins Erzya - 19,9
[Uralic] Komi-Zyrians - 18,5
[Uralic] Udmurts - 16,7
[Uralic] Mordvins Moksha - 16,0
[Uralic] Livonians - 15,1
[Uralic] Komi-Permyaks - 14,5
[Uralic] Udmurts Bessermen - 13,7
[Slavic] Volga-Ural Russians - 13,2
[Uralic] Lapps - 10,3
[Uralic] Mari - 7,6
[Turkic] Chuvash - 4,7
[Turkic] Tatars - 4,5
[Uralic] Mansi - 2,7
[Uralic] Khanty - 2,2
[Turkic] Bashkirs - 0,6

Source: https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/sta...ych-w-tabeli-2

Google-translation: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4309348

I added together "jasne blond" + "blond" + "ciemne blond".

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Geographical locations of populations used in that analysis:

https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/ima...wie/sample.jpg



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Edit: I translated captions in the table from Polish to English:

Which Curonians? Latvians that nowadays live along the Curonian Lagoon? Curonians as in Kursenieki?

Curonian Baltic tribe is extinct for some time, just as their specific identity.

[Lucas]

Which Curonians? Latvians that nowadays live along the Curonian Lagoon? Curonians as in Kursenieki?

Curonian Baltic tribe is extinct for some time, just as their specific identity.

Yes Kursenieki from Curonian Spit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursenieki
Russian anthropologists were able to check them in '50 before they complete expulsion to Germany. Now they are extinct as spearate group, just mixed with Germans in Germany.

[Harkonnen]

Well according to my dad I look ruddy and reddish like men, women and children of west, and not like a REAL white man such as my dad himself. That is my daddehs take on racial matters

[Peterski]

Curonians=native Memellanders correct? Or sorta?

Kind of, they were from the Curonian Spit. Check their distribution in the map below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curonian_Spit

Northern part of the Curonian spit belonged to Memelland (shown as Lithuanian here):



^^^ This map shows historical regions located within present-day Kaliningrad Oblast.

Which Curonians? Latvians that nowadays live along the Curonian Lagoon? Curonians as in Kursenieki?

Kursenieki. But they were descended from Curonian immigrants from Latvia.

[Laag]

Nice thread. I made eye color chart for Komi people and their neighbours.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...he-Komi-people

Here's table based on Bunak's vision of light, mixed and dark eyes.
Light eyes: 1-4 on Bunak Scale
Mixed eyes: 5-8 on Bunak Scale
Dark eyes: 9-12 on Bunak Scale


Here's table based on the concept of light and dark eyes.
Light eyes: 6-12 on Bunak Scale.
Dark eyes: 1-5 on Bunak Scale.