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Thread: It’s The Creator’s Fault if One Exists

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    Default It’s The Creator’s Fault if One Exists

    It’s The Creator’s Fault if One Exists
    "I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have
    designedly created the Ichneumaonidae with the express intention of their
    feeding within caterpillars."

    - Evolutionary scientist Charles Darwin in a letter to Asa Gray

    "Here’s something to ponder long and hard. Malaria was intentionally
    designed. The molecular machinery with which the parasite invades red blood cells
    is an exquisitely purposeful arrangement of parts. [A mother’s] children died
    in her arms partly because an intelligent agent deliberately made malaria."

    - Intelligent design pseudoscientist Michael Behe in The Edge of Evolution


    If perchance an ultrapowerful creator deity exists, one way or another it
    is entirely responsible for killing off some 50 billion children and 100-300
    billion preborn (http://gregspaul.webs.com/Philosophy&Theology.pdf).
    Consider some alternatives.

    According to leading Intelligent Design creationists such as devout
    Catholic microbiologist Michael Behe, because it is not possible for living
    organisms to evolve via natural selection God has had to intentionally craft every
    species of microbe that kills people kids included specifically to kill. And
    since God carefully designed humans he deliberately failed to equip
    children with the effective immune systems the little tykes need to fend off the
    diseases he designed. That is outright premeditated homicide. Malaria alone
    may have slaughtered 20 billion children, smallpox perhaps 10 billion. In The
    Edge of Evolution Behe prattles on about how God has created a stage for the
    human drama to play out upon, and that in this play bad things happen.
    That’s inane, and it’s morally depraved -- if a producer put on a play that was
    designed to kill off half the child actors they would be put up on charges
    for homicide. Or contemplate how in Godless: The Church of Liberalism, Ann
    Coulter relies on Behe to prove why Darwin was all wrong about amoral
    evolution as opposed to God’s moral creation, and she is outraged at how the
    god-free environmentalists have allowed millions to die from malaria because they
    had a beef against DDT. This when Behe argues that God devised the malarial
    killing machine that has aborted the free will of billions in the first
    place! Its moral inanity of the highest order. Concocted to maximize PR
    potential, the term Intelligent Design is a misnomer. It should really be labeled
    Stupid Design. Or better yet Dumb Ass Design -- DAD. Really, I’m not kidding.

    Many but as we shall see not all fundamentalist Biblical creationists
    who go for the literal Genesis story agree with the intelligent I mean
    stupid design crowd (who blasphemously accept that species descend from one
    another over immense geological time) that God had to design every lethal microbe
    to be lethal. But they contend that it’s not God’s fault that disease
    rampages across the planet. In their opinion all was fine in the Garden of Eden
    circ 4000 BCE where all organisms lived in harmony, with the big cats and
    the tyrannosaurs eating vegetables, and the waiting in the wings disease
    organisms doing who knows what. Humans, not God, are responsible for the
    activation and spread of diseases because Adam and Eve sinned by disobeying their
    creator, releasing the bacteria and viruses to afflict humanity that deserved
    what it has received for its Fall from Grace that can only be redeemed
    through Christ. This Looney Toons scenario is the equivalent of parents placing
    an open container of gasoline in the kid’s room, plus a box of matches, and
    warning the children not the play with fire. Bad results are guaranteed. Not
    explained by this scenario is why the human reproductive system the perfect
    God designed is so imperfect that it wastes most conceptions, and why the
    immune systems he crafted for kids are so lousy. The idea that allowing the
    deaths of countless billions of immature children and aborting their free will
    is justified because a couple of humans slipped up is as incoherent as it
    is depraved.

    Many theists don’t want to have anything to do with how either DAD or
    Biblical creationism makes their beloved God out to be a murderer, so they
    contend that God did not design any diseases. Instead God in his perfect wisdom
    allowed living things to evolve willy nilly on their own under the influence
    of highly imperfect and amoral natural selection. Some organisms happened to
    evolve into kid killers, and for some reason efficient immune systems did
    not evolve among human juveniles, while the human reproductive scheme did not
    turn out to be any great shakes either. This sloppy evolutionary version of
    godly creation proposes that in trying to maximize free will the nitwit
    creator incompetently minimized free will. This scenario is not necessarily
    premeditated murder, but it at least is negligent homicide on a stunning scale.
    Again, a careless producer that put on a play that happened to whack off
    half the child actors would be charged with criminal negligence. This scenario
    too is ethically depraved.

    A good many Biblical creationists share the evolutionary creationist’s
    aversion to a premeditatedly homicidal intelligent designer, but they also
    oppose the amorality of evolution. So in their view none of the microorganisms in
    the Garden of Eden had been crafted with lethal mechanisms by God. Instead,
    some microbes devolved into killers after The Fall, so don’t blame the Lord
    Creator. Nor did the creator outfit children with the effective microbio
    defenses those who bore no responsibility for The Fall would need to survive
    the diseases (a form of collective punishment of the type the commies are
    into) He in His perfect knowledge knew would evolve. Adults did not get
    efficient reproductive complexes to minimize noninduced abortions. This
    pseudoscientific fiction manages to share some of the logic and morality defects of
    both the above Genesis creationist and the evolutionary creation scenarios.

    A few Abrahamist monotheists have proposed that God is Good, but He is not
    sufficiently powerful to prevent bad things from happening, as per Rabbi
    Kushner’s Why Bad Things Happen. This hypothesis is fatally flawed because even
    we humans using some pretty simple ideas such as sanitation, vaccines and
    antibiotics have saved billions of kids. A wise and caring god could have
    easily provided his creations with the information needed to save billions of
    kids over history. Instead, the Biblical Jesus does exactly the opposite,
    deriding those who wash their hands before eating for engaging in a meaningless
    ritual. In other words, the supposed Creator of the Universe shows how
    little he cares about the well being of people by giving out bad sanitation
    advice. Although the gospels have Christ saving a few local children, the
    overall mortality rate remained at one in two. That is not love for the children,
    and claiming otherwise is morally obtuse.

    The Holocaust of the Children makes it impossible to construct a
    monotheistic creator of overwhelming power that is moral and does the right thing when
    it comes to humanity, is it possible to devise a god that is good in a
    polytheistic scenario? Assume that there are two great gods that possess roughly
    equivalent powers, close enough that if they wage war upon one another the
    outcome is a true toss up. Further assume that one deity is truly good, and
    that the other is really bad. Finally, for some reason the outcome depends
    to a major extent on which side humanity fights. In that and other
    polytheistic scenarios at least one God can be good to a certain degree. But the
    premise is too flawed to fly.

    Why would the activity of mere mortal humans be of import in a struggle between
    titans of immense power? More importantly, the better deity is obligated to let
    humanity know about the practical steps they can take to save the little ones.
    Failure to do so is at least ethically if not criminally negligent. I am hard pressed
    to think of a religion that proposes such a duel between supernatural equals
    without a certain resolution. Zoroastrianism comes fairly close, but in that canon
    the outcome is predetermined in favor of the good God, so it like Abrahamism
    is merely an immoral morality play staged for insufficient reason on the kid killing earth.

    The actual reason the planet has such an ugly dark side is simple enough.
    There is no one in charge of the show, so lots of awful things happen.
    Mindless natural evolutionary processes that do not know better are
    correspondingly amoral, so tens of billions of kids die for no good reason.
    In the end we cannot blame the gods for the mess, for they of course do not exist.

    The apparent decline of popular creationism (Part 1 of this series) and
    (http://www.opednews.com/Diary/More-o...110906-88.html)
    has an interesting convert. Michael Behe’s son, Leo Behe, has come out as an
    atheist evolutionist. In part because the universe is too inefficient and
    defective to take the idea that a perfect God created the mess seriously.

    It is to the elder Behe’s credit that he straight out acknowledges that his
    creationist beliefs require that God be the exacting designer of death
    dealing organisms. At least he is not evading the dark side of his alleged
    creator like most theists are wont to do. But that does not save the morality of
    his creation. Note how in the beginning quotes above it is the
    anti-creationist Darwin who so many believers condemn as immoral who just cannot swallow
    the illogical notion that a creator that designs organisms to kill other
    innocent beings can be truly good. It is the godly Christian who is fine with
    the egregiously killer God.

    Samuel Clemens had no patience with such nonsense.

    "There were typhoid germs, and cholera germs, and hydrophobia germs, and
    lockjaw germs, and black-plague germs, and some other hundreds of aristocrats,
    specially precious creations, golden bearers of God’s love to man, blessed
    gifts of the infatuated Father to his children."
    - Letters From the Earth

    http://www.gspaulscienceofreligion.com/suppe.html

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    It is clear that we were not created in our present form by God, however, I believe that human evolution was guided by God.

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    It clearly is His fault. Fuck you, Creator
    Spoiler!

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    The purpose for human suffering and hardship is to lead people to the Christ Consciousness which is the mystery of God within human beings.

    The reason that God does not intervene to prevent bad things from happening, is because to do so, would interfere directly with human spiritual and physical development. An example of this principle can be found when environmentalists refuse to interfere with nature so that evolution can continue unabated.

    Although God does not wish catastrophes, natural disasters, and other bad things to occur, God will allow them to occur for the purpose of instructing humanity. It is because humanity is not in tune with nature because of war and environmental transgressions that these things occur.

    War exists everywhere in nature. The world is a literal combat zone where survival of the fittest is law. Viruses invade our bodies and antibodies kill them. We are constantly at war against insects destroying our crops and invade our homes. Because we, as humans, are at the top of the food chain, we slaughter all kinds of plants and animals for food and clothes.

    At times, a country declares war against other countries which threaten its national interests. Hurricanes, earthquakes, and other natural catastrophes unmercifully kills multitudes of people and destroys billions of dollars worth of property. Some day in the future, the world will in danger of being destroyed by a killer asteroid or comet. Ultimately, the whole universe might end the same way it began - with a violent explosion of unimaginable destruction.

    NDE testimonies describe an incredibly violent act by God resulted in the creation of the universe and all the acts of violence that followed. An infinitely massive explosion unleashed by God led to unimaginable chaos, destruction and fireballs of incredible proportions. After eons of time, the chaos began to subside and harmony began - the heavenly bodies were born.

    "I saw that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating Universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by supercomputers using fractal geometry equations." (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)

    While it is true that love is always the best teacher, war can also result in divine revelations for the learning and soul growth of humanity. Near-death insights reveal how our greatest mistakes can be our greatest teachers



    It is not enough to merely focus on the cross of Jesus and the divinity within him. Jesus taught people to "take up their own crosses" and follow his example and way. A person whose higher self has overcome his lower self will then become spiritually "awakened" and a spiritual "resurrection" will take place. The person will then begin to manifest the human-divine unity that Jesus did.

    The liberation of humanity is when the "devil" (the delusion of separation and self-will) is then "cast into the abyss" (self-will is suppressed from consciousness by the divine will). The result will be "heaven on Void" (divine awareness within humanity).

    The story of human evolution is the story of the struggle of the human spirit in overcoming the animal flesh. It is the Bible story, from Genesis to Revelation, concerning the fall and rise of the human spirit. It is paradise lost and paradise found again.

    Jesus knew he had to die on the cross to fulfill his mission. His mission was to demonstrate to humanity how to practice love through self-sacrifice in devotion to others and by overcoming self so that our divine nature can be manifested.

    Adolf Hitler was responsible for unleashing a global war and Holocaust never before witnessed in history. We think of Hitler as the personification of evil, the devil incarnate, a monster of hideous proportions, and we assume he is now burning in hell for eternity.

    We practically deny his humanity and demonize him. But this is one of the characteristics that makes Hitler so horrifying - he was a human being. He knew certainly knew love because he much has been written about his deep love for his mother. Millions of Germans loved him. But the question concerning Hitler's Holocaust is not, "Where was God?" but "Where was man?"

    So we cannot blame God for such actions, even though NDE testimonies reveal all human beings are a part of God:

    Within every human being is perfect love. That is our core - this love, this perfection, this God-ness." (Jayne Smith)

    "God is within us and we are an inseparable part of God. We are perfect love as a creation of God. We and God are one - Creator and created." (Linda Stewart)

    "We must stop trying to become God because God is becoming us.. We are the human part of God.. God is expanding through us.. God is exploring Self through us in an infinite Dance of Life by every way imaginable, in an ongoing exploration through every one of us, through every piece of hair on our head, through every leaf on every tree, through every atom." (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)

    "We were conceived in love spiritually, and love is the center of our beings. It is the energy of our souls, the spark of our divine nature. Being made of love, we cleave to it and seek it in all that we do. When we do not have it, or when we have lost it, we grieve. Its presence or absence colors our every action. It is life. It is happiness. It is salvation itself." (Betty Eadie)

    Try to imagine what Hitler's life review must have been like. In the light of complete love and understanding, Hitler would suddenly realize his true nature as perfect love. He would then become every victim of his atrocities and feel all their pain. He would see perfectly how all his thoughts and actions had an impact on the entire universe. Although he made such monumental errors, he certainly learned monumental lessons from his life review.

    One might even wonder if Hitler learned more from his life review than any other human being. We can only speculate how horrible the negative aspects of his life review must have been. It may have been too unbearable for one man to endure.

    From big mistakes come big lessons; and it is clear that Hitler made very big mistakes leading to big lessons, not just for himself, but for all of humanity. It should be clear to us how God permitted Hitler to make these mistakes for the purpose of instructing humanity. Near-death testimonies reveal how God loves everyone unconditionally including Hitler. So we too must love Hitler unconditionally although not what he has done. We know God's infinite mercy extends even to him and that someday Hitler will join the choir in heaven just like the rest of us.

    The following NDE testimonies reveal God allows big mistakes to occur for the sake of learning big lessons:

    "Everyone goes to the same place. This includes Billy Graham, Hitler, and Jeffery Dahmer." (Mac Wright)

    "Mistakes are an acceptable part of being human. We are to make all the mistakes we want. It is how we learn." (Rev. Howard Storm)

    "There really is no sin as it is known in the world. The only thing that has any meaning in the spirit world is what we think. The very core of our being is perfect love and light." (Jayne Smith)

    "There is no evil in any human soul. It is the lack of love that distorts people. We are designed by God to self-correct, just like the rest of the universe. No one is lost because everyone is already saved." (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)

    "I'm sure that I asked the question that had been plaguing me since childhood about the sufferings of my (Jewish) people. I do remember this: There was a reason for everything that happened, no matter how awful it appeared in the physical realm. And within myself, as I was given the answer, my own awakening mind now responded in the same manner: 'Of course,' I would think, 'I already know that. How could I ever have forgotten!'" (Beverly Brodsky)

    From these NDE insights, we should conclude that Hitler was not an "evil" man. This is because evil does not exist -- only spiritual ignorance exists. There should be no doubt that Hitler was very spiritually ignorant. He was so spiritually ignorant, we might even consider him uniquely "challenged" spiritually. It's possible Hitler's spiritual deficit was the result of a dysfunctional frontal cortex of his brain. Who is to say? Viewing Hitler as severely handicapped (who but "by the grace of God goes us") makes it easier to love him unconditionally. How can we blame someone with a severe disability? It is much easier to sympathize with them.

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    Sometimes I drown in the disbelief people can be that stupid but they be - Fitness science man.

    It's so obvious religion is a man made tool of mass.control and a pleasant delusion of afterlife in heaven where you chill all day and winged bitches blow you yet so many still continue to not only believe in it but commit terrible atrocities in its name.

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    Both egg and chicken were simultaneously created by god.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linebacker View Post
    Sometimes I drown in the disbelief people can be that stupid but they be - Fitness science man.

    It's so obvious religion is a man made tool of mass.control and a pleasant delusion of afterlife in heaven where you chill all day and winged bitches blow you yet so many still continue to not only believe in it but commit terrible atrocities in its name.
    Religion may be man-made but everything that Jesus embodies is true. Proof is the countless near-death experiences who describe God as infinite love. Religions are just cultural institutions but God is universal. Love is not limited to any one religion or even religion at all.

    The different religions just have different ways of explaining the same Creator. God created differences in religion because of the different lessons we all need to learn. Near-death accounts suggest that unconditional love is the highest form of religion there is.

    "I asked the light, which I call Christ, how people from other religions get to heaven. I was shown that the group, or organization, we profess alliance to is inconsequential. What is important is how we show our love for God by the way we treat each other. This is because when we pass to the spiritual realm we will all be met by him, which substantiates the passage, 'No one comes to the Father, but by me.' The light showed me that what is important is that we love God and each other, and that it isn't what a person says, but the love in their being that is examined in the afterlife." (Sandra Rogers)

    "I wanted to know why there were so many churches in the world. Why didn't God give us only one church, one pure religion? The answer came to me with the purest of understanding. Each of us, I was told, is at a different level of spiritual development and understanding. Each person is therefore prepared for a different level of spiritual knowledge. Each church fulfills spiritual needs that perhaps others cannot fill. No one church can fulfill everybody's needs at every level." (Betty Eadie)

    Everyone, religious or not, believing in God or not, transitions to the spirit world as part of the natural process of life. Just as one does not need to be religious to live in the physical world, one does not need to profess a particular faith to live in the spirit world." (Nora Spurgin)

    "Within the Light of God, we realize that everyone and everything is connected to God ... Within the Light was the cure for all diseases; within the Light was all the knowledge of every planet, every galaxy, every universe. Indeed, the Light was Wisdom and Love beyond all comprehension." (Dr. Dianne Morrissey)

    "God is everywhere because nothing exists that is not a part of God. God is neither a man nor a woman nor a thing. Life itself is God." (P.M.H. Atwater)

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    God does not exist stop spamming huge columns of pasted text,and open the sheep eyes.

    It's people like thats fault we haven't yet made any progress in studying the universe and learning the real reason of its and our existence.

    I dream of the day we will kill all the religious leaders and burn all the books and be done with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sekarotuinen View Post
    It is clear that we were not created in our present form by God, however, I believe that human evolution was guided by God.
    Sigh...
    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


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    The creator allowed his special snowflakes, angels, interfere in human history so much it doomed billions to an eternity of suffering. God should be sued for crimes against humanity, I don't know a single parent that would leave their child, who knows nothing, in the fire when it could be easily prevented.

    Angels are assholes, according to the bible, a 3rd of the angels revolted, interfered with human history and were allowed to do this because god. Yes god sent his son to form a new covenant, great, still dooming billions of souls to an eternity of hellfire.

    what a fucking asshole

    the vatican released the tablets of King Nog, a giant, if you think that giants basically half breeds between angels and humans arent real then you are just ignoring evidence. US special forces in afghanistan killed an 1100 lbs 6 fingered giant put it on a plane and fly it to the US. All the crew, including the pilots verify this. This giant killed 9 men in the process, apparently.

    You can google the transcript of king nogs writings, you can also look up the giant killed in afghanistan.

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