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Thread: Classify Slovak people.

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    Can't it be argued that Slovaks are descendants of the Moravian tribe (i.e. ethnic Moravians) rather than a brand new ethnicity? Moravians were distinguished from Czechs (Bohemians) by foreign sources. The western Moravians were assimilated into the Czechs (western Czechia is called Moravia still) and the eastern Moravians became the Slovaks.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravians_(tribe)
    I never denied they don't have in their roots the Moravians, even a few posts back I stated this, but it's not their sole ancestry, plus there is no real significant evidence that people claimed Slovak identity before the Modern Age, only some very scarce hints in the 15th century documents. That's just simply not enough to claim that most Slavs of Upper Hungary were actually Slovaks, it's unfair to the rest of the Slavs with their distinct identities, who lived in Hungary.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    So you're saying the Moravian tribe never existed ever? And that the page I linked earlier is based on misunderstandings?

    If so, then why did foreign sources distinguish Moravians from Bohemians? Why do they have their own name for themselves (Moravljane)?


    When you search Moravljane in Google Books, then a source comes up but you can't view the full text.

    Under the search, this is the text that comes up:



    This is the book its from (the text won't show up on this page but you can try searching what I quoted above):

    https://books.google.com/books?id=bL...KLAwAQ6AEIUDAH

    Wrong. I said, there is a chance that Great Moravia existed in present-day Serbia. Passing Moravian tribes centuries before the Hungarian conquest in modern-day Slovakia can't prove that they remained there. Can you imagine how many tribes and ethnic groups passed trough the Carpathians and Carpathian basin before and after the Roman Empire? There are simply not proofs that the present-day Slovaks are Moravians.

    I can only see a desperate past/history creating/fabricating and searching of a relatively young ethnic group.

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    Veteran Member Karol Klačansky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stears View Post
    Wrong. I said, there is a chance that Great Moravia existed in present-day Serbia. Passing Moravian tribes centuries before the Hungarian conquest in modern-day Slovakia can't prove that they remained there. Can you imagine how many tribes and ethnic groups passed trough the Carpathians and Carpathian basin before and after the Roman Empire? There are simply not proofs that the present-day Slovaks are Moravians.

    I can only see a desperate past/history creating/fabricating and searching of a relatively young ethnic group.
    Don't be jealous stears that Slovaks are the original inhabitants of their own country lol.

    Proglasъ jesmь svętu jevanьgelьju:
    Jako proroci prorekli sǫtъ prěžde,
    Christъ grędetъ sъbьratъ językъ,
    Světъ bo jestъ vьsemu miru semu.
    Se sъbystъ sę vъ sedmyi věkъ sь.
    Rěšę bo oni: slěpii prozьrętъ,
    glusi slyšętъ slovo bukъvьnoje.
    Boga že ubo poznati dostoitъ.
    Togo že radi slyšite, SLOVĚNE, si:
    Darъ bo jestъ otъ Boga sь danъ,
    darъ božii jestъ desnyję čęsti,
    darъ dušamъ, nikoliže tьlěję,
    dušamъ těmъ, jęže i priimǫtъ.
    Matъthei, Mar(ъ)ko, Luka i Ioanъ
    učętъ vьsь narodъ glagoljǫšte:
    Jeliko bo svoichъ dušь lěpotǫ
    viditъ, ljubite bo radovati sę,
    grěchovьnǫ že tьmǫ otъgъnati
    i mira sego tьljǫ otъložiti
    i raiskoje žitije priobrěsti
    i izběžati otъ ogni gorǫšta,
    slyšite nyně otъ svojego uma,
    slyšite SLOVĚNЬSKЪ NARODЪ vьsь


    It's obvious to anyone that it's not a coincidence that Slovaks call their nation "Slovensko" call their language "slovensky" And call their women "Slovenky". It's also not a coincidence that when St.cyril wrote his poem proglas that he addressed the people their as Slověne and the nation as the slovensky národ. No mention of magyars any where....

    Stears is a western European wannabe who looks like a scary Russian from a James Bond movie.
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  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by karol.klacansky View Post
    Don't be jealous stears that Slovaks are the original inhabitants of their own country lol.

    Proglasъ jesmь svętu jevanьgelьju:
    Jako proroci prorekli sǫtъ prěžde,
    Christъ grędetъ sъbьratъ językъ,
    Světъ bo jestъ vьsemu miru semu.
    Se sъbystъ sę vъ sedmyi věkъ sь.
    Rěšę bo oni: slěpii prozьrętъ,
    glusi slyšętъ slovo bukъvьnoje.
    Boga že ubo poznati dostoitъ.
    Togo že radi slyšite, SLOVĚNE, si:
    Darъ bo jestъ otъ Boga sь danъ,
    darъ božii jestъ desnyję čęsti,
    darъ dušamъ, nikoliže tьlěję,
    dušamъ těmъ, jęže i priimǫtъ.
    Matъthei, Mar(ъ)ko, Luka i Ioanъ
    učętъ vьsь narodъ glagoljǫšte:
    Jeliko bo svoichъ dušь lěpotǫ
    viditъ, ljubite bo radovati sę,
    grěchovьnǫ že tьmǫ otъgъnati
    i mira sego tьljǫ otъložiti
    i raiskoje žitije priobrěsti
    i izběžati otъ ogni gorǫšta,
    slyšite nyně otъ svojego uma,
    slyšite SLOVĚNЬSKЪ NARODЪ vьsь


    It's obvious to anyone that it's not a coincidence that Slovaks call their nation "Slovensko" call their language "slovensky" And call their women "Slovenky". It's also not a coincidence that when St.cyril wrote his poem proglas that he addressed the people their as Slověne and the nation as the slovensky národ. No mention of magyars any where....

    Stears is a western European wannabe who looks like a scary Russian from a James Bond movie.

    There are not proof that the Slovaks are original inhabitants. There are only nationalistic aspirations for that. There are not any poems of St.cyril about "Slovaks". He simply found slavic speaking people in the area. Slavic is a linguistic group, and not an ethnic group, and there are not proofs that the Slovaks are direct descendants of that people, just because they speaking slavic language. (The most common linguist group in former Eastern block country)

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunai View Post
    I never denied they don't have in their roots the Moravians, even a few posts back I stated this, but it's not their sole ancestry,
    They can collectively claim cultural continuity from Moravians. Its not like all Hungarians are descended from the original Hungarian invaders that came from the Urals.

    plus there is no real significant evidence that people claimed Slovak identity before the Modern Age, only some very scarce hints in the 15th century documents.
    True. Slovak just meant generic Slav. Slovak became the name of a distinct nation not too long ago. They were called Slav/Slovak because they were just random Slavs without their own country at the time.

    That's just simply not enough to claim that most Slavs of Upper Hungary were actually Slovaks, it's unfair to the rest of the Slavs with their distinct identities, who lived in Hungary.
    What other Slavs lived in Slovakia/Upper Hungary besides the Moravians?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    They can collectively claim cultural continuity from Moravians. Its not like all Hungarians are descended from the original Hungarian invaders that came from the Urals.



    True. Slovak just meant generic Slav. Slovak became the name of a distinct nation not too long ago. They were called Slav/Slovak because they were just random Slavs without their own country at the time.



    What other Slavs lived in Slovakia/Upper Hungary besides the Moravians?
    No sense arguing, they are Hungarian nationalists. You'll never be able reason with them. Their bias doesn't allow them to think rationally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karol.klacansky View Post
    No sense arguing, they are Hungarian nationalists. You'll never be able reason with them. Their bias doesn't allow them to think rationally.

    Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk
    Your arguing is a non-sense arguing. "Their bias doesn't allow them to think rationally." Because we don't want to follow your romantic nationalistic nativist ideology without proofs?

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    I think the main problem with Slovak's history is that they didn't have any strong leaders before 19th century.
    They definitely existed but weren't important - maybe it has something to do with the nature of the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnolia View Post
    I think the main problem with Slovak's history is that they didn't have any strong leaders before 19th century.
    They definitely existed but weren't important - maybe it has something to do with the nature of the country.
    Main problem with Slovaks is they weren't centralized like other nations and didn't have a major city of their own. Even to this day Slovakia isnt a country with one massive capital. The country is over 5 million yet Bratislava is only half a million and over 50 percent of Slovakia still lives in rural areas. A big city always leads the nation. All other ethnic groups have this. But it's one reason Slovaks didn't really change their name from the original one, and just kept calling them slavs. The Slovak langauge seems also to be an older version of west Slavic than Polish and czech. Of course Slovaks always existed. Our ruralness left is more untouched in a way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by karol.klacansky View Post
    Main problem with Slovaks is they weren't centralized like other nations and didn't have a major city of their own. Even to this day Slovakia isnt a country with one massive capital. The country is over 5 million yet Bratislava is only half a million and over 50 percent of Slovakia still lives in rural areas. A big city always leads the nation. All other ethnic groups have this. But it's one reason Slovaks didn't really change their name from the original one, and just kept calling them slavs. The Slovak langauge seems also to be an older version of west Slavic than Polish and czech. Of course Slovaks always existed. Our ruralness left is more untouched in a way.
    I will not argue with you. I know how much Slovaks try to create a theories to achieve a national pride. They didn't change their name because they didn't have leaders that give them a unique identity. e.g. Moravians have it even though they are a smaller ethnic group then Slovaks and yes their "cities" are not big.
    As for Language we both know name Ľudovít Štúr...

    History is over. IMO Slovaks shouldn't look back but to the future. Future can give them what their history is not able...

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